Why doesn’t England just leave the UK?

92

WHETHER you were for Brexit or against it, there’s little doubt that the process of actually leaving is set to present some serious headaches over the next few years.

The negotiations will be a nightmare – costly, dull, full of political point scoring at either end of the Channel, and destined to end with consequences we’ll have no way of knowing for a generation.

Scotland, Northern Ireland and Gibraltar will be furious if a ‘hard’ Brexit is pursued, while major companies are already preparing to set sail for Frankfurt. 

There is, however, a simple solution which has had surprisingly little airtime. 

England should just leave the UK.

It’s a win-win situation for everybody but the Welsh, who would have to make their own minds up whether to follow England out the door. Democratically, financially and practically it makes perfect sense.

Gone would be the torturous negotiations, the invocation of Article 50, the dreary doom-laden warnings of obscure German politicians and ‘Brussels bureaucrats’.

Not only Britain but all Europe would be spared the ‘running commentary’ and years of idle speculation, the millions spent on tasteless conference suites ironing out the divorce details.

The UK would remain a member state of the EU. Nothing would change for Scotland, Northern Ireland or Gibraltar, who would maintain their status and membership of the single market. 

England would go its own way, instantly banished from the EU just as Scotland would have been according to campaigners against independence in 2014.

The threat from Spanish prime minister Rajoy to veto Scottish membership of the EU if it left the UK would be made redundant. It would apply to England, but it wouldn’t care.  

In one fell swoop England would be shot of the EU, as per the wishes of the 53.4 per cent who voted Leave, rid of the pesky Scots, and finally have its very own parliament. 

Even Wallonia has its own parliament and the English have long complained that Scottish MPs are allowed to vote on entirely English questions. 

This fledgling new state could be named ‘England’ and would have every right to expel immigrants, build walls and finally figure out its national identity. 

High finance would also win big. Instead of moving out of London, multinationals could set up camp in the north, while much of the present market instability would be alleviated with news of a practical compromise.  

Trade would suffer slightly with England out of the single market, but that’s on course to happen anyway and Europe is making contingency plans. 

The breakup of the UK courtesy of England’s departure might be a nasty affair but the mutual benefits would make negotiators see the light.

The result of the 2014 independence referendum in Scotland would be respected, as would the wishes of the 62 per cent of Scots, 55.8 per cent of Northern Irish and 99 per cent of Gibraltarians to stay in the EU.

It’s a perfect solution to a complex problem that allows all the Home Nations the freedom they deserve. 

92 COMMENTS

  1. Please ladies and gentlemen, do not start your own civil war. It is clear to all that Teresa May and her government have a hard job to do with many complexities, but we have to give them a chance to get things straight, without just jumping in with both feet.
    But it has been very interesting to read how every one has a different answer to the problem without actually keeping to the real question.

  2. Hi Michael I’m guessing you are a jock or a taffy, we don’t mind either of you but resent funding the silly socialist agendas your local politicians seem to think is their right to squander english money, the scots bleat about their oil revenues but it’s been proven funding scotland versus tax oli returns will never be equal or fair to the english and as much as we love welsh singing and the rugby again wales is not and doesn’t look like it will be self financing anyday soon.

  3. There never was a “United Kingdom of Great Britain”.

    There was a “united Kingdom of Great Britain”, or to put it another way, a unified Kingdom of Great Britain. The clue is in the name adopted by the unified parliaments of 1707 and 1801…

    The parliament which resulted from the Parliament of England joining with the Parliament of Scotland was the Parliament of Great Britain.

    In 1801, the Parliament of Ireland combined with the Parliament of Great Britain to create the Parliament of the United Kingdom.

    The 1706/7 Acts described a “united kingdom of Great Britain” and named it the “Kingdom of Great Britain”. Therefore in 1707 the word “united” was descriptive, it did not form part of the kingdom’s name until 1801.

  4. Very sensible words maureen but unfortunately many people posting here do not appear to have much common sense. This piece appears to have been posted by the author just to instigate discussion and argument, I see no other reason to have written such stupid hypothetical rubbish except to give some certain types of people reason to vent their silly opinions. Its when you read some of the comments made here it makes you wonder how such stupid politicians can get into power in the UK 🙂

  5. Theresa May does not deserve one scrap of a chance until she publishes an election manifesto in the usual way and calls a general election. She has absolutely no right to lead the country anywhere in the meantime. The 2015 election was fought by David Cameron with a manifesto that’s now dead in the water.

  6. Why, it effects us, we paid in all our working lives for our pension, as it is so low, it us cheaper living in another EU country. Why should we be used as pawns!

  7. yeah but we have trident… More powerful than any army. I used to live in the borders and I hope you can see the wood for the trees now. Scotland can run its own political affairs, may inherit the UKs EU membership which would be less of a headache due to Brexit. The forces, royal family etc probably would not change. That is most likely. I would love to be run by a government I vote on or the majority of Scots vote in. Not this Toey madness who tell us the country is skint but we can afford to spend trillions on a new runway…. Yeah right! We’re far from skint when it suits them! Please look into things more and let’s get our own parliament back and make a better job of it than Westminster!

  8. Here’s what a senior EU lawyer says : “Folk who have no clue about how the EU works are trying to tell Scotland what will happen. Let me educate them. There’s no protocol for Scotland’s situation, but there’s a well defined process. Scotland’s position will be decided by judicial review in European Courts. There are 2 questions these European Judges need to rule on:

    (1) Can Scotland remove the rUK from our current contract, a legal procedure already possible under Ordinary Contract Law?

    (2) Probably more important, can the EU abandon 5 million people who are already EU citizens? Such a situation would go against fundamental EU principles and tear the very fabric of the EU.

    I find anything other than allowing Scotland to continue in the EU unlikely, but that decision will be made by judges in a court case, not by England, Spain or any other country in the EU.

    Anyone who offers up a different opinion is just trying to second guess the outcome of a court case; and anyone who says stuff like “Spain will block you” just doesn’t know what they’re talking about.

    I don’t myself know what the outcome of the court case will be, that’s for judges to decide, but they will have to answer these two questions, and I believe Scotland has a very strong case. How could the EU abandon 5 million people who are already EU citizens, and still hold to the EU’s fundamental principles? To do so would break the EU far more than brexit ever could.”

  9. The English haven’t ruled England, never mind any other country, since the Battle of Hastings, 950 years ago. When you say “the English wanted to absorb Scotland”, what you should say is “the non-English ruling classes squatting in England….”

  10. I partially see what you’re getting at #brian but we are all different and different we will remain. Some people are dangerous. Some people want all the power. People are divided and will remain as such. The days of a Perfect world where we all live in harmony, have no borders etc is probably never going to happen. Why? Money is one reason. Countries do not give up their wealth easily. Another reason – religion – been dividing us all for centuries. It’s a paradox how the religious person has a commandment to love thy neighbour and not kill but they do it any way in the name of their God…. I will never understand why! Final reason I will give here (although there are more) is sometimes going to war and taking out a dictator is necessary as was the case with Hitler. What we have to do it think about what is best for Scotland in this current climate. That for me is independence. Of course it would be better if England left but I doubt the English will be given a referendum to leave the UK. If they did maybe they would say yes to leaving the UK and let us get on with it!

  11. You need to step away from whatever has made you high and read some facts! We are all British nationals so not sure what the hell you’re on about. Civil war is not likely. ‘Traitorous independence squeaking toads’ I think you will find that the biggest losers to any split in the UK will be the English as also Brexit was a mistake. I wonder why you believe we are traitors when all we want is fair democratic powers? Look at how we have voted on several occasions but a Scottish majority vote means nothing. Perhaps 55% of us voted to remain in the UK a couple of years ago but I honestly believe it was swayed due to the potential loss of EU membership. You really have no clue so don’t be a troll for the sake of it.

  12. [quote]Everyone who is running England down is okay. I am assuming at one time you all payed taxes in the UK and when you retire you’ll get a pension? Then with your attitudes I would say that all expats should loose there rights to get a pension> I voted to stay in the Union but Germany is the problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote]

    Have you thought this through?

  13. I’m English. I think for a start you should do your homework on funding across the UK rather than parrot the tabloid spin that England subsidises Scotland.Then perhaps you could ask Scots and Welsh if they like it when people call them Jocks and Taffies in political debates.

  14. [quote]International treaties are not contracts, and contract law does not apply to Scotland’s membership of the EU.[/quote]

    So, Mike, the Treaty of Union isn’t a contract?

  15. Interesting idea except that most major employers in Scotland and Northern Ireland have operations in those countries because it provides low cost support to their main English businesses. If England were to leave the UK, those businesses would have no alternative but to pull back into England. That would create serious employment problems for Scotland and Northern Ireland. Since neither has economies capable of generating sufficient wealth to support themselves, both would require substantial EU funding/support. Given the EU will lose c15% of it’s annual Budget when “England” leaves, whatever the European Courts might think, the EU simply could not afford to fund such a solution.

  16. I wanted Scottish Independence Caz. Loved “Outlander”, about Jacobite Scotland and an English woman’s adventures there. I highly recommend the box set of both tv series, but many non-Scots will need subtitles to understand the language! (grin.)

    A little bit of me still wants Scottish Independence, but something happened recently that made the rest of me change – Brexit.

    What if Brexit goes ahead in its present form led by the Westminster government and Scotland DOES vote to separate from England? What would happen to the living standards of the people in both countries?

    We’ve already seen the Pound plummet by 25% of its value against the Euro since last year’s high. Come Brexit-Day it will fall further due to the impact of new trade, customs and banking tariffs on an already shaky service economy. Imagine how much further it will fall if Britain breaks in two at the same time. We would all be much poorer. We Scots might be better off than the English of course if we adopted the Euro before the Pound falls any further, but not much.

    Nowadays, I genuinely believe “unity is strength”. I voted against Brexit, as did the majority of Scots. However the more shameful comments from some English people in this thread are shaking my belief that any kind of unity with England is possible any longer. I would say to such people, be careful what you wish for!

  17. Well, the heat has dissipated on this subject – all has gone quiet from the many contributors -. I remember another significant political event in 1999, – I leave you readers to think about what it was and where. It did prompt a critique of a book with a fictionalised but believable and probably accurate behind the scenes account of the actual events, summed up by one of the newspapers at the time – & I wonder if it fits this increasingly crazy EU/ UK situation – ‘An excoriating denunciation of hypocritical diplomacy, high politics and exploitative journalism which explodes in an apocalyptic climax.’

  18. “neither has economies capable of generating sufficient wealth to support themselves” says Tangerine Panda

    By far the biggest single export the UK has is whisky.

    SCOTCH whisky.

  19. As much as there being truth in what you say I have just added some interesting data:
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/281807/largest-export-commodities-of-the-united-kingdom-uk/

    BTW, it is the government that actually employs a huge number of people in N.I. in the civil service! Those people could not survive if those jobs where lost as they would be when the government offices are moved to the mainland UK, there would be nothing to replace those jobs… so N.I. won’t be leaving the UK! 🙂

  20. To whomever it was that suggested ‘a number of businesses will pull their premises from Scotland in the event of independence threatening mass unemployment’, I’m sorry but I believe that you are way off the mark with that little doozy.
    I would say that it is far more likely that businesses will move into Scotland in order to maintain their EU status. My Question to you is why would a business want to have several years of uncertainty about trade deals and tariffs whilst Mayhem and Co thrash out details (which they can only do after they have negotiated with Brussels) when they could retain their EU Credentials by moving 500miles up the road from London to Edinburgh/Glasgow?

  21. Brian, people being simple or not has nothing to do with what I said!

    Your second hasn’t really either… the UK being a member of the EU has nothing to do with what you rant on about… you and others can make it appear as complicated as you want but it is… the UK that is the member state of the EU, not Scotland, N.I., Wales or England… end of story!

    There is no true democracy of course, Switzerland I believe is one of the few countries that comes anywhere near to being a true democracy, although it isn’t either… just as a matter of interest. 🙂

  22. Caz, If should look at what goes on in the Scotish parliament, you might understand that the little mad woman doesn’t want trident… so you might not have it if she got her way! Even if Westminster have approved it.
    What would the Scotish parliament make a better job of? Sturgeon already has shown she hasn’t a clue on running Scotland as any of the SNP haven’t, you really need to watch what goes on there and see all the issues under the SNP, their prime interest is to leave the UK… that is where most of Scotland’s problems are! It also appears that many of her Scottish supporters are now catching on her and her interests… or lack of them depending on how you look at it!

  23. Oh Mike, please do not continue to deceive yourself that such a fiendishly complicated situation is simple when it patently is not.

    You say it is “the UK that is the member state of the EU, not Scotland, N.I., Wales or England… end of story! ” Yes you are perfectly correct up to a point. That is the present situation. Indeed it is, but the very outcome of the Brexit vote itself is changing all that. It doesn’t necessarily follow that the relationship between these countries will inevitably stay the same AFTER the Brexit. Different countries have different agendas. Things change. In fact everything changes over time. Nothing lasts forever. Empires rise and fall. The Republic of Ireland has left Britain already. A precedent has been set.

    The English exit from the EU is seemingly inevitable, but do not assume English arrogance will make Scotland meekly tag along with you. Be prepared for the gathering storm and the ultimate devastation it may bring – to everyone caught up in it.

    Some of the more extreme English contributors here even think England is actually better off alone! Their misplaced English pride blinds them to the reality of England’s continuing dependence on outside influences. In this deeply interconnected world, no man is an island – even if he’s English.

    Don’t expect any further replies from me by the way. This one should suffice. It’s self-evident.

  24. The Scots, welsh & Northern Irish have had 9 referendums between them on devolution and home rule. With indyref2 next up.

    The English meanwhile have never had a referendum on England. So who is being treated without respect?

  25. No man is an island,
    Entire of itself,
    Every man is a piece of the continent,
    A part of the main.
    If a clod be washed away by the sea,
    Europe is the less.
    As well as if a promontory were.
    As well as if a manor of thy friend’s
    Or of thine own were:
    Any man’s death diminishes me,
    Because I am involved in mankind,
    And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
    It tolls for thee.

  26. You look at it as you want Brian, but as I have said, it is the UK that is the member state of the EU, not singular UK countries. If you want Scotland to be a member of the EU then UK has to leave first then Scotland can apply to join, you make it as complicated as you want to see it 🙂

    One other thing, you as other keep spurting out nationalism and such things as “Some of the more extreme English contributors here even think England is actually better off alone” well some of the Scots here “including you” actually think Some of the more extreme Scottish contributors here even think Scotland is actually better off alone!

    For crying out loud Brian, listen to yourself 🙂

  27. And I guess indyref3 after that… ya know you gotta have the best of three no! 🙂 Come to think of it maybe this is something we could do with elections while we are at it, might make it a bit more interesting to give the losers a couple of chances 🙂

    Obviously a lot of people have nothing constructive to do with their time now, that’s what we get for having social media and the internet eh 🙂

  28. Why are you all bleating these countries Scotland,Wales and Northern Ireland. I would imagine that everyone’s reply I have been reading are English eand have left the UK and now living in another country. So why go on about it just stay were you are and don’t bother coming back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  29. “maybe this is something we could do with elections”

    the maximum time between elections is five years, Mike.
    Unless the Government loses its majority through by-elections, or loses a vote of confidence, in which case it can be anytime.

    Having a new referendum on independence for Scotland when it’s quite clear the 2014 message “You’ll be out of the EU if you vote Yes” is now completely out of date makes perfect sense.

  30. Yep, why not, then the general public could screw the UK economy up for good wouldn’t it, just like moaning remainers including some MP’s are doing now by creating more economic instability for an unstable economy, your suggestion will drag UK into an even more unstable economy… clever thinking batman!

    Funny isn’t it how many complain about the economic instability Brexit has created… yet go out and create even more instability by moaning and demanding another indy vote! Another referendum! Continue in the single market! Just let the government get on with it and all these complaints people have about the falling pound and economic stability will be better…. just takes people to stop moaning! 🙂

  31. Chick – how little you know of the world I am sorry to say. Wales actually is sitting on the fence and not bleating.
    Perhaps you live nearby and can hear the sheep bleating bleary-eyed after a busy days
    chomping grass in water-laid fields.

    I’m a time-served English taxpayer who for 44 years paid my dues unfailingly and along the way managed
    to create 1500 man-years of work in Leicestershire. This afforded HM Treasury countless millions in taxes
    and N.I. contributions to say nothing
    of the VAT collected over a number of years. So I have a right to belly-ache about what is going on in England
    and the UK and resent the usual brexit assumption that you are empowered to tell everybody who disagrees with
    brexit and who is concerned for their country to “shut up·”.
    How dare you and the likes assume this power you have not been granted?

  32. continued
    It is bad enough that we have a dictatorship in Downing street run by the Four Brexiteers
    and who have decided to hi-jack UK citizens living in the EU and EU and are holding them and their families as
    hostages to be bartered for favorable trade deals like they are lots to be cast. The powers you lot have been
    encouraged to believe are not for you or the public at large but for May and co who will use them to turn citizens
    into surfs and themselves into Barons. These people are the new elite who along with the right wing press owners
    who are already part of the elite will make your future lives hell. I have voted Conservative over the last 56 years
    but the party I once trusted is now moving towards Nazism and do not want your rights to be protected by the
    Human Rights Act. Be Warned!!!!!

  33. Don’t know if anyone has noticed but the full title of the Conservative Party is the Conservative & Unionist Party. Any Conservative PM who tried to take England out of the Union would last about 10 seconds. End of story.

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