By Euro Weekly News Media • Published: 02 Mar 2016 • 10:15
This year has already seen 131,724 refugees cross the Mediterranean to get in to Europe.
EUROPE is on the verge of a ´self-induced humanitarian crisis´ according to a statement released by the United Nations. This comes amid the chaos and build-up of huge numbers of migrants and refugees stuck on the border between Greece and Macedonia.
Many families are stuck in limbo with few supplies including food, water and shelter. The current estimate is that 24,000 people are stuck in Greece. The UN has also stated that better planning and better accommodation is needed.
The UN refugee agency spokesman Adrian Edwards said: “The crowded conditions are leading to shortages of food, shelter, water and sanitation.”
German Chancellor Angela Merkel raised concerns over the situation on March 1, when she said: “As we all saw yesterday tensions have been building, fuelling violence and playing into the hands of people smugglers.”
Incidents are common at border control when sometimes hundreds of desperate migrants and refugees storm the fence. Currently a large number of army trucks are present and stationed near a railway line as an extra guard against potential clashes.
Since the new year, some 131,724 refugees have already crossed the Mediterranean which is more than the first half of 2015, according to the UN.
A new plan prosed by the European Commission advises that aid agencies should be working directly with the UN and other groups within the EU rather than dividing money to individual countries.
The plan would seea total fund of €300m to be used this year by any EU state to help deal with the migration crisis. €700m would be made available over three years.
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Oh, for God’s sake…just give them homes!!! 131,000 is the population of one small county town in UK or capital comarcal in Spain. How hard can it be??? If every town in Europe, Canada and the US took one family, they’d all be warm, fed and safe without anyone noticing their presence. What happened to all the local council efforts here, the registers of residents with spare rooms or houses? Peoople are dying unnecessarily, sick and elderly people are going without essential medical treatment, kids are missing months or years of school. When is someone going to just take some action? If it was happening to the inhabitants of just ONE of these wealthy western countries, the fuss they’d kick up that nobody helped them…!!!! Surely there wasn’t THIS much inaction, global procrastination, when it was Bosnia/Serbia/Kosovo, or the WWII Jews, or the Ugandan-Asians, the Khmer Rouge victims in Cambodia, or the Spanish Civil War refugees????? The only ‘crisis’ is that governments just can’t be a***ed to act. Or that’s how I see it…
Angela Merkel… I wonder what she will go down in history as?
It is hard to imagine that is not one of these self serving beings can even appear to accept their mistakes when they make them, do they begin to understand any responsibility and consequences of their stupid statements? A person in her position couldn’t even understand what the consequences of her actions would be when ordinary people in the street where aghast the moment she said ‘you can all come’! This is what happens when you give another entity control of your sovereignty, the European commission and most of the Brussels are so out of their depth, out of touch and out of their heads it’s almost unbelievable and yet they appear to think they are somewhere above us all.
I am beginning to think that if someone ever tells me again that being in the EU is a good thing I will interpret that as ‘I am a fool’! 😉
But even if the UK votes ‘out’, you won’t escape the EU, Mike – you’re still living in it here in Spain!Whether or not Merkel had said ‘refugees welcome’ (a sentiment that was reflected by banners in the street), they would still have come in. When you’re trying to escape being bombed, tortured or killed, you don’t tend to think, “it’s a bit rude to squeeze through a fence without a passport.” One of my favourite novels, ‘Lucky Child’, by Loung Ung – true story – tells of the desperate attempts people will go to just to survive. It’s based upon the life of refugees fleeing Pol Pot’s régime in Cambodia. The female author was conscripted at age eight, and describes how her friend’s head was blown up and she ‘brushed her brains off her sleeve’ before carrying on with the fighting. She was nine at the time. Nobody can truly imagine the horrors these poor people must be coping with, the images they’ll never get out of their heads. Médécins Sans Frontières has set up a log-cabin ‘park’ with running hot, central heating, kitchens, etc, in northern France to house refugees. A charity. How about some of the governments do likewise? They’ve got more money than a handful of volunteer doctors.
I have no issue living in Spain one way or the other, I am British, I came here with a couple of quid and I have lived here ‘legally’ since before Spain joined the EU and I will live here If the UK leaves the EU!
You just don’t get it do you Kayy? It’s not about me, it’s not about some expats who are here as far as I am concerned… IT’S ABOUT THE FUTURE OF THE UNITED KINGDOM AND IT’S PEOPLE! ‘Not shouting, just want to make sure you get it’.
What do you mean ‘It was a sentiment that was reflected by banners in the street’, no it wasn’t, it was a stupid woman called Angela Merkel telling people they could all come…. ‘I watched her say it’ and within 2 weeks… they came!
Most countries in the EU are practically broke ‘including the UK’, they can’t look after their own people properly, they cannot provide proper services, most countries ‘if not all’ have unemployment problems ‘some huge’ and ppl say let them in… explain how do you provide the resources for that Kally? Would you like to give one of them your job because in many cases… someone ‘or a few million at this rate’ will have to!
The horrors of this world and EU countries I might add can be terrible for many people, one of the reasons we have politicians, so these things can be tackled and handled with foresight, responsibility and integrity… well they didn’t even get a pass on their first big test then they try to tell us we are more secure being looked after by them, well thats a joke!
From what I hear, life was a lot less simple before Spain joined the EU (for Brit expats) and I’ve read and heard a fair bit of anecdotal evidence about pensioners whose income was considered too low to meet requirements being denied residence and sent home, and others who lived under the radar. I moved to Spain (with a couple of quid and no job to go to) using my EU citizenship which granted me free movement. I wasn’t born when the UK joined, but from what I hear of life before I was born, the UK was a pretty grim place. Women legitimately denied promotion if they were married, couldn’t open a bank account without her husband’s permission, sexual harassment in the workplace was the accepted norm, the three-day week…Nope, not sure I DO get it. You don’t live in the UK, so aside from any funds you may get from there (you must. Apparently even I’LL get about 2-and-6 when I retire from GB) your interests lie with what happens in Spain, where you live and pay most (all?) of your taxes, and whose laws affect your daily life. Plus, how do you KNOW what the UK’s future would be like without the EU? Even the gov says it doesn’t have a clue. It hasn’t factored a Brexit in. Inspires confidence, doesn’t it…?Agree with your last paragraph, but the UK is one of the world’s richest countries. Don’t confuse ‘State deficit’ with ‘poverty’. UK can easily absorb a few refugees just as it did in the late ’90s. And as I said, I’ve put my name down to take in refugees if they ever get here. I’ve got space at home.
Oh – and actually, Mike, there were scores of photos in the news of Germans holding up banners reading ‘refugees welcome’. Merkel had her country’s support in the beginning. It wasn’t until the NYE attacks that things changed, because the offenders were erroneously described as ‘refugees’ (only three in 58 were. At least one was German. Just as I’ve had to fend off feral men who were British…). With Pegida inflaming the situation further, it’s all gone into meltdown. But Germany needs immigration (most countries do, actually). As for giving my jobs to them…luckily, my jobs couldn’t easily be done by a Syrian. Or a Spaniard. Or quite a few Brits. But immigrants tend to be enterprising wherever they come from (just look at Brits, Germans, Dutch, Moroccans, Latin Americans, etc, in Spain, and the contribution they’ve made to society and the economy).
Thats right and there where a lot of men that used to go into dark holes in the ground to work but this has nothing to do with it!There where a lot of Brits here inc’ hippies with little! apart from the ones now passed, others mostly did something with themselves and are now in most cases retired here, there is no ground to your argument.
Because some of the people hold a lot of wealth doesn’t mean anything with the argument, if interest rates climb it is not they that will pay the debt, it is government taxes and everyone rich and poor!
The fact the the UK doesn’t have a clue is to a point normal, it is new territory to them and what they say to some point is true, you need to note that DC wants to remain so he won’t exactly make it clear that there is another path… sitting down and creating bilateral agreements is what would happen, so when the cut off point came the change should be relatively smooth.
You say: ‘Germany needs immigration (most countries do, actually)’ this is not exactly true! Gov’s look at a way of contributing to the pension system to cover its costs, a reason is because in the past politicians raided the pot, what happens when retirement age comes for the ppl that where here when others came and those immigrants retire? Open the doors to more? Letting people in is not the solution!
Bit selfish of you, no one could take your job! But they could take other peoples jobs or take a job someone else who is already here might get!
People who ‘did something with themselves’ in the hippie era were fortunate to be able to. Having a job in Spain these days is a luxury, and I have Spanish friends who are highly-qualified but cannot find anything other than three-month pint-pulling jobs in summer for less than the minimum wage. Anyway, Germany is SCREAMING for immigrants. Have you seen the number of jobs they’ve been trying to fill via Spain, Portugal and now even African countries?! Swathes of Spaniards now live in Germany. And actually, an Italian restaurant chain in UK recently advertised for 300 Spanish workers (go figure. But origin aside, immigration clearly IS needed). Do you know how Spain sees it? Spaniards get a good education here, largely taxpayer funded (which taxpayers don’t mind because it’s a positive thing), then another country (ie, UK) gets the benefit of that education. Good point.Jobs won’t just be pinched off ordinary citizens and given to refugees; it doesn’t work that way. Economic migrants (like Spaniards in UK and Germany) don’t tend to stay put for life. And refugees mostly want to go home as soon as it’s safe. How many ex-Yugoslav people have you ever met here or in the UK?Finally, do you really have any idea of the extent of admin headaches bilateral agreements would cause? And the ‘bi’ bit gives a clue: they have to be agreed by both parties, not just the UK. What benefit would Spain get from giving preferential treatment to British pensioners? Cameron’s already chosen to discriminate against EU-ers in UK!
A brief PS, Mike: Do you really, honestly, trust the Brit government to look out for your best interests if there’s a Brexit? It doesn’t even do that now. It could WIN the referendum by scrapping the 15-year rule (which is anti-human rights and affects only two countries in Europe) but it can’t be bothered. ALL Brit universities without exception are pro-staying in, most science laboratories, most of the major financial players (Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan are seriously talking of pulling out their operations from London and setting up in Dublin or Frankfurt. And they’re fairly switched-on entities). Personally, given this and previous governments’ lack of concern for expats (and even its own people), I don’t trust them to make sure it all goes swimmingly for me or my fellow ‘pats if the UK leaves. Your ‘men going into a hole in the ground’ is a good example – it might be seen as unethical, unhealthy and inhuman in today’s world that this was how they all earned a living…but they were dramatically worse off once they were all shut down, weren’t they? (I can’t comment with authority there; I was only a tot, I lived in the south, I only saw it on TV. But the film ‘Brassed Off’ moved me to tears). If a government will do that, without any back-up plan for those negatively affected, why should it bother setting up deals for us – when many of us can’t vote for them and several don’t pay them taxes?Governments rarely seem to bother with back-up plans…
Mike, What’s the connection between your car and the migrant crisis?
It begins with 4 major wars launched by our own political leaders during only the first 11 years of our new century – Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and Syria. Purpose? Regime Change – the removal of Saddam Hussein, the Taliban, Gaddafi and Assad. Why? Well, the reasons are very complex, and in the case of Afghanistan even more so. They involve terrorism of course. However in the case of the other three in particular they have one big thing in common. Oil.
Our western political leaders can’t keep their hands off the stuff. They’ll go to any lengths up to and including all-out war to get control of it! In the case of Syria our leaders funded and provided arms for the rebels so they could undermine Assad and try to engineer his fall from power even though he represented NO specific threat to us. They did not succeed. Now they are bombing those same rebels because they failed to foresee they would turn into terrorists striking back at their former masters. You couldn’t make it up! Meantime, Syria is emptying itself of its people. They are knocking on our own doors as they run for their lives.
So next time you fill up your car with fuel, and pay less for it per litre than drinking-water consider the TRUE cost in terms of human lives – both soldiers and civilians. The full ÃÂ cost of the biggest refugee crisis the world has ever seen is yet to come home to us and it is indeed “self induced.”
Mike, a whole sentence in capitals and an exclamation mark and then denying you’re shouting? Well, people will make up their own minds about that. We can read Mike. We understand you Mike. We just don’t agree with you Mike.
It is clear that your real problem is you just can’t stand anyone disagreeing with you full stop – even when the points they make are self-evidently true and yours are not. I know a good anger-management therapist who does not live in a cardboard box like you say I do. Would you like me to put you in touch?
So whats your solution Brian?
Kally if Germany wants them then thats fine with me, the problem is once they are resident in Germany they can go anywhere in the EU… it is an open door to Europe for any of them that are allowed to reside in an EU country, one of the reasons it is better for UK to be out of the EU, then we can control who comes. I find your thinking a little naive and it you obviously don’t so I am done with your arguments, have a good weekend 😉
No Brian, because you don’t agree doesn’t mean there are not others that do, this is not about you!
I can sure you, it is not me who is the angry one Brian 😉
You DO know that the UK is not in the Schengen zone, don’t you, Mike? Its borders are pretty well hermetically-sealed. You can’t get through unless you have a passport. Been stuck in the entrance queue at Stansted, Gatwick, et al for over an hour lately???Likewise if they sail into ports. Straight to the asylum application zone, or show your passport. And as refugees, they will probably try to enter via the back door anyway – because they’re desperate. How will being out of the EU stop that? The EU means free movement between EU CITIZENS, and outside the Schengen, this involves passport control. The refugees are Syrians and, even though they may be able to get around different member States without border checks, they can’t get into the UK without border checks. Because border checks are only not carried out within the Schengen. The UK has never been under any pressure to join it and has opted out of it. Do you get the picture?On the other hand, EU membership means shared border control. France protects the entrances to UK and vice versa. Member States have an agreement whereby criminals can be automatically extradited across EU borders without either country putting up obstacles, and Europol depends upon the EU. This means rapists and murderers hiding out in Spain can be sent back to the UK and brought to justice (73 out of 80 have been found since 2007). Criminals from EU countries in the UK can be sent back to where they come from. The UK and its borders are MORE secure by being in Europe.
Actually, Mike, I think you ARE angry, because you’re never able to counter an argument without resorting to name-calling and personal insults. As for refugees or immigrants being ‘let into’ the UK, I still can’t see how this bothers you when you don’t live there. They could divert them to East Anglia, where the sound of a non-English speaker, or the site of a non-white face, makes people stop in their tracks and turn around as it’s so rare. However, as Spain is in the Schengen, there’s more ‘danger’ of your ending up living next door to refugees here than if you DID live in the UK. And also because the Spanish people are keen to have them. The EU has offered financial help for countries which take them, anyway. Whether or not others agree with you is not the point – the point is rather that you don’t have to use personal insults to respond to those who DON’T agree with you. It’s a sign of a closed mind, and isn’t very polite. Don’t do it.Finally, though, next time you’re in the UK and get yourself a takeaway curry, remind yourself that if it hadn’t been for refugees, you wouldn’t be able to. Did you oppose the Balkan refugees being resettled quite so strongly? Okay, but where are they all now?
Your latest words to me Mike, “this is not about you!” You’re right, it’s not about me. It’s never about me – even when you say it is, as a result of you not reading me properly in the first place and flooring the accelerator pedal before your brain’s in gear.
No, it was about you and your shouty capitals remember? You and your obvious anger. It was all about you man. Nobody but you.
As for, “I can sure you (sic), it is not me who is the angry one Brian” the obvious haste with which that was written and the fact that you did not go back and correct it before hitting the send button speaks for itself.
Sorry Mike, you reveal your true nature every time you protest that you don’t. Take my advice. Before you fire up again next time, pause for a moment of reflection. Read whatever it is again. Read the context it is in. Other items that it refers to may be above or below it. Just read before you write. Learn to listen as well as broadcast.
“So whats your solution Brian?” you say. Well unless you’re taking the… er…ÃÂ Michael you’ve completely missed the point again Mike.
There is no solution. Not at present anyway. That was my whole point. You’re so literal you never grasp the underlying implications of anything you read. You just skim the surface – every time – and then go off at a tangent.
Well, let me attempt to get it through to you in more depth.
Our political leaders are good at starting wars but not at dealing with the aftermath. That much should be obvious. Cameron’s brilliant ‘solution’ to the Syrian refugees was to add British bombs to all the others. He and the leaders of the other 27 nations are achieving the seemingly impossible by being both completely paralysed and running around in circles at the same time! It would be funny if it wasn’t so serious.
As Kally pointed out elsewhere, there are more than enough villages, towns and cities in the 28 countries of the EU – never mind all the others in the world – to take at least one family each and you would never notice the difference, but our world leaders can’t even reach an agreement to do that although they’re quick at agreeing to wage wars. Meanwhile Greece and Germany are struggling on their own while the others do nothing at all. As long as this ridiculous situation persists there will be NO ‘solution.’
Your own ‘solution’, aired previously, to just send them home is simply laughable for the reasons I gave at the time.
No solution… no kidding! I actually knew you didn’t have an answer other than let them in which of course is what I have trying to make clear is not a solution, it is a foolish move that will cause many more problems in the future. Yes, I know about the politicians but there is not much we can do about that as the clocks cannot be turned back!
You don’t really need to do the sums Brian as Brussels number estimate 1,3 Million immigrants to the EU in 2015, that might be broken this year! Forget about the numbers for this year for a second… we are talking about 1.3 Million in 1 year, to say that EU countries wouldn’t even know the difference is just stupid! 21.8 million unemployed people in the EU 28 C’s, you think adding to that another 1.3 Million from last year, possibly the same or more this year, goodness knows how many more after that and ‘you would never notice the difference’! My solution ‘aired previously’ as you say is still the same, sending them back will stop them from coming ‘even if ppl don’t like to be told that’ but if they are just let in like you and Kally think they should be, then they will just keep coming and that will cause even more issues!
As you mention the EU are at a loss, they can’t even get a method in place to filter economic migrants from those fleeing war! I wonder how they would handle a military invasion, it would probably be all over and done with before the EU had a discussion about it! 😉
Okay, solutions. The first and most obvious is ‘stop procrastinating and playing ostrich’. Second; what did the West do before? The Balkan outflow was one of the most serious to date before now. But it was dealt with. We’ve plenty of past references to draw from. Thirdly, speak to charities and international orgs on the front line (the UN’s HCR; Docs W/out Borders; Amnesty Int, Red Cross, London Refugee Council…)What do THEY want to do? Find out. Fund it. They’ve got accommodation, food, shampoo; they don’t need jobs straight away. They’ll need language lessons, professional training (this is an entire nation or two, so many will already be doctors, nurses, computer experts, scientists, educators, etc. Conversion training would make them useful cheaply. The NHS couldn’t function w/o refugee doctors; FACT. Sponsorship programmes; food collections in Asda and Mercadona (I bought nappies to add to the Balkan pile. Given my age at the time, you should have seen the looks I got from others in the queue…). Volunteers with rooms and spare homes. The EU has set aside a budget already; X ⬠per refugee would give volunteers an incentive (but they wouldn’t need one). It’s safe to say anyone from Syria or Iraq isn’t an ‘economic migrant’. To stop Africans who think the streets are paved with gold (as they’ll have a hard time here; those in Spain already know), campaigns in source countries. They had one with Youssou N’Dour 10 years ago. But SOME action is better than none. Right now, NONE is happening.
As for ‘sending them all back’ – aside from being cruel – it’s illegal. The Geneva Convention on asylum seekers and refugees, signed in 1955 by most of the world, forbids any asylum seeker being sent back to a place they may be harmed. No country has ever chosen to pull out of the Convention in 61 years. If the UK thinks it’s too poor to help out a handful of people escaping death and torture, it COULD pull out. But it hasn’t. If it wants to stop foreigners getting in, it’d do so more easily breaking off from the refugee convention than by pulling out of the EU.And do you realise 1.3 million is 2% of Europe’s population? That’s without taking the USA and Canada into account. Then there’s Oz, NZ, Japan…Even NOVELS offer solutions. As well as Lucky Child by Loung Ung, there’s Sumitra’s Story about a girl who fled Idi Amin when she was 10 and her journey to adulthood from becoming a refugee in London. It was based upon fact, the author’s own experiences. The author is supporting herself nicely now because her book ended up on the GCSE syllabus and sold an awful lot of copies.Whether or not I’m naïve, I can’t answer that. But I HAVE done my homework (and keep on doing it). If something makes me uncomfortable, I research it. I’m also passionate about human rights (what if this happened to me, my friends or family?) I campaign hard for WFA and ’50s-born Brit women’s pension probs. (Neither affect me personally, but they affect people I know). And my Grandma knows what living in a warzone is like.
What I actuallyÃÂ wrote was “not at present Mike” so it does not surprise me that yet again you have written a whole load of stuff that has nothing to do with what I actually wrote. By your own admission you have no answer but to keep them out. It is downright evil to think that way. It would not be possible anyway. It clearly isn’t because they just keep coming. You look at everything from the wrong angle. In your short sightedness you look only at the refugees themselves. You are not looking beyond them at the entire world.
The world is an awfully big place. Think America for example. Think Russia for example. The two main countries that are causing this by having their proxy war in Syria. Massive countries. Are they taking in any refugees? Of course not. But they could if they wanted to.
There is so much space in so many huge countries all over the world that the problem could be solved with no difficulty at all if the world’s political leaders had the will to do it. But they don’t. So they won’t. Yet. I thought I had made that clear to you. Obviously not. So here we go again.
Syria is only one country. The world has so many, many more. Each and every family could be offered safety and refuge in ALL the major countries of the world and nobody would notice them. They would disappear in the vastness.
But the world is ruled by shortsighted people who don’t think that way. ÃÂ People a bit like you. More’s the pity.
Aw mike, you’re beyond saving. I think even Jesus Christ the Son of God would have given up on you and left you in the hands of the Devil. Your attitude towards other living, breathing human beings – i.e. the refugees – is selfish and evil. God help you son if you ever get caught up in a war yourself.
My own mother and father were caught up in the Clydebank Blitz. Look it up. You can Google it. They and their families and most of the other people living in Clydebank were bombed out of their homes and saw them reduced to rubble. A bit like Syria. There were no homes left for them to live in. Bit like Syria. They became refugees. Bit like Syrians.
As soon as they could, my parents’ brothers and sisters and other family members all migrated to America, Canada, Australia etc. My parents managed to find a house nearby where they could look after my elderly grandmother who was not in a position to leave. My family is now scattered all over the world – simply because their homes had been destroyed and once the war was over there would still be no housing for them for many years to come. So they left. A bit like the Syrians. Weep for them Mike instead of ranting at them. Or are you so beyond saving you can’t even shed a tear for poor unfortunates caught up in a war that is not of their making. Our Western leaders made it. They should be dealing with it. They’re not.
Brian the migrant crisis is the present, what you fail to understand is that is what I am talking about, it is you that raises the past, which is the past and cannot be changed!These migrants could be sent to Russia I agree but those migrants won’t! They could be broken up and distributed all over the world but that isn’t happening and it won’t happen either, so those options are pointless to suggest as an argument for letting them into EU countries in huge numbers, what you suggest is fiction!
As I have mentioned before many of these people are economic migrants taking advantage of a situation, you might not agree but I am fairly positive most people in EU countries don’t want them here either. People are very quick to say we need to do something and then suggest the easiest solution or have none at all, yes we need to do something but letting them into the EU is not that ‘something’.
I would suggest that it is you who are the shortsighted one as it is you who is the one not thinking about the consequences of what is happening, present nor future! In fact letting these people in is exactly the way the shortsighted EU politicians are thinking so it is you that thinks like them Brian, not me!
I do not agree with your arguments, you can call me what you like, insinuate about me as you like but it you will not change the fact I think letting these people into the EU as is being done is a huge mistake.
Mike, as I mentioned before, I think it’s pretty safe to say that NOBODY coming from Syria or Iraq is a ‘mere economic migrant’. Don’t you?And even then, there are scales of ‘economic migrants’. I suppose I’M one, given that I came to Spain and immediately needed to start looking for a job. Likewise the Spaniards in the UK and Germany. Everyone wants to make a better life for themselves, but you’d be surprised at how many actually don’t want to have to leave their families, friends, countries, LIVES, to do so.Other ‘economic migrants’ are actually fleeing starvation and extreme poverty. Even then, when they’re in a position to get their families to come and live with them and to support them, their families often don’t want to come. (The Somalian supermodel Waris Dirie is living the high life whilst her mother fetches water from wells miles away across the desert…because her mother won’t leave her home). This is where campaigns at source, and foreign aid (for example, charities sponsored by giant companies) can help. But there’s no help for anyone still in Syria or Iraq. Mere survival means getting the heck out of there. Rest assured, not one single person leaving either country for the affluent West is an economic migrant. Not one. They HAD perfectly good jobs before the war started.Brian, how courageous your family is/was. It still amazes me how the WWII generation didn’t go clinically insane. The awful sights they’re stuck with forever. Like my Grandad in his FEPOW camp…
Brian you know absolutely nothing about my feelings so don’t even try and make it out that you do. As I have explained there are other ways of handling this but letting all these people in to the EU is not that way. You have no idea as to what is going on do you, it is that same naivety from EU politicians that puts everyone in the EU in danger.
There is absolutely no comparison between your family example and what is happening now… obviously you haven’t realised, any of your arguments you put up for accepting these people are because of politicians actions & past examples of migration, none are reasons to just open the EU flood gates to millions of people.
We should learn from the past Mike and use it to shape the future. I told you how my family left the rubble of their homes and fled to other countries. My uncles and aunts who did that are no longer alive but their descendants, my cousins and their families are. They are no longer Scottish. They are now Americans, Canadians, Australians. They have given birth to other Americans, Canadians, Australians and more.
So it will be in due course with Syria’s people – just on a bigger scale – but it is only one country. The world has many countries. They will no longer be Syrians. They will become other nationalities. This terrible paralysis that is gripping the world’s leaders – who CREATED this awful tragedy with their bombs and their foolishness – ÃÂ will give way at some point. Nothing lasts forever. The dam will burst. It’s bursting already. Btw, you are mad to ÃÂ call them ‘economic migrants’ you foolish man. Syria was an oil-rich, wealthy country before we destroyed it trying to remove Assad. Economic migrants don’t have to flee from bombs and missiles Mike. You’re just swallowing Daily Star style tripe.
Above all Mike, they are PEOPLE. They deserve to live. If you had your way and sent them back they would die. You would be a murderer…
Your arguments are futile – empty of humanity or compassion. I feel sorry for you because you will never change. You’re stuck the way you are. I’m happy in my skin. You are just small minded, selfish and mean.
If only it where that simple Brian but sadly it is not!
Don’t feel sorry for me Brian, it is me that feels sorry the world has to put up with the naive opinions from people like you.
So I am a murderer now because I think they should be sent back… does that make you a murderer because migrants have killed within the EU? Any other insults you want to fling while you are at it, you appear to be nothing more that an ranting old fool!
Didn’t say you are a murderer Mike. Read it again. Said you would be – not are actually. As for you saying to me “you appear to be nothing more that (sic) an (sic) ranting old fool!” Write in haste, repent at leisure.
Moving on… Y’know, You were an economic migrant yourself Mike – once. Now before you deny that, think about it. You left strike-ridden, Sterling crumbling, power-cut Britain and came to Spain with only 2 pounds in your pocket and you stayed. You had all the opportunities here to work hard and succeed in bettering yourself. You did it. Now you live a better life in this sunny country permanently and you have no intention of moving back to cold, grey, wet Britain. Welcome, migrant.
So what’s the difference between you and those others that you dismiss as economic migrants? I’ll tell you. You did not have to scale razor-wire fences. You did not have to cross treacherous waters in dangerous, leaky, sinking boats. You did not have to dodge bombs and missiles and bullets only to be blocked or turned back at the borders. You were welcomed into Spain with open arms by comparison. See, I do know quite a lot about you.
As Europeans, our first hominid ancestors came north out of Africa in search of better pastures and feeding grounds. You have economic migrant genes in your very own blood and in every cell in your body Mike. It’s in your DNA.
So it’s a bit rich coming from you when you protest that refugees from wars are merely ‘economic migrants’. What a joke.
Ha, ha, ha! Mike, re, “you know absolutely nothing about my feelings so don’t even try and make it out that you do.” Do you not realise you reveal your ‘feelings’ to everyone on the EWN website every time you write a comment? Honestly, you’re so funny, you’d make a great comedian.
As for, “There is absolutely no comparison between your family example and what is happening now” there dam’ well is. I pointed it out already. You seem congenitally incapable of seeing anything in any depth. You only scratch the surface and completely fail to see the main point when it is staring you fullÃÂ in the face.
Let me spell it out to you. While you can not see any further than the borders of the EU. I am talking about the entire world. It’s a big place Mike. Lots of countries. Plenty of room for everybody. You seem to think I am arguing to “just open the EU flood gates to millions of people.” I am not. You just think I am because you don’t read me properly.
Mike, did you know many of the refugees have smartphones? I saw them on the telly last night if you don’t believe me. Why am I telling you this? Well, smartphones can access the Internet of course. They can read the stuff you are writing on this website. Maybe you need to be more cautious than you seem to be. Why?
Well, Syria was a modern, advanced, oil-rich country with universities, offices, doctors, scientists, businesses – and Internet access before the war. Now that its university students, office managers, doctors, scientists, businessmen and women can access the Internet again on their smartphones over here, they can read your daily rants against them on this website! Many of them understand English at least as well as you do.😉They can read how you want to send them back to almost certain death rather than disturb your cosy little comfort zone. They can read your hateful remarks about them. They can read your ‘feelings’.
You can expect them to respond to you once the word gets round.
I’m spreading the word. So are you if you only but knew it…
Oh dear Brian, you continually take up more space with silly pedantic personal criticisms in your posts when someone disagrees with what you say. Your solution to that is to throw out insulting remarks, it is you who are ranting Brian!
Am I correct in thinking your last post is an attempt at trying to scare me, basically because you don’t like that I think migrants should be returned to where they came from as the EU cannot cope with their numbers? You don’t seem to understand that I am allowed to have an opinion even if you or the immigrants with smart phones don’t like it, that is my right.Do you know the police have computers Brian and they can read your posts too!
Re. “Am I correct in thinking your last post is an attempt at trying to scare me?” no it certainly is not. That’s just your fevered imagination. I merely pointed out something I saw on the telly Mike.
Re. “Do you know the police have computers Brian and they can read your posts too!” er, yes I do Mike but I think they have better things to do… like catching criminals. I have nothing to worry about because I am a law abiding citizen.
Yet again you misread me. You do it all the time. What I wrote was, “I’m spreading the word. So are you if you only but knew it…” Since it appears you don’t understand what that means, let me explain. It means that you are spreading the word too – every time you write. Everyone, everywhere in the world with access to the Internet can read what I write but they can also read what YOU write Mike. That includes the refugees themselves. That’s all I was saying. There is no threat from me, either real or imagined.
How the refugees may react when they read your stuff is a different story though. I am not responsible for that. You are. Nobody forces you to write what you do, least of all me. You do it all by yourself.
As for taking up space… I wouldn’t have to if you understood me in the first place and if you didn’t keep repeating the same mantra over and over again I.e. the one about returning them back where they came from. You’ve done it again just above! When something is written once it does not have to be repeated. It is there permanently.
Are you serious, everyone can read this? Gosh your a smart man Brian! I know what your post meant but will leave it up to those who read it to make up their own minds about you.
You failed to want to take in what was said and the consequences, sending migrants back and into safe zones would and still could prevent a lot of problems. Laurent Fabius has put this forward as have former US defence secretary Robert Gates as has former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice along with many others, such people are in a better position to know what is laughable than someone like you! Now had these safe zones been created and the migrants been sent back it could have prevented several things, 1. stopped most of them from coming, 2. stopped most of the people traffickers, 3. avoided most of the problems that are being caused in the EU countries by the influx, 4. the waste of billions of euros that could have been used to pump into these safe zones. 5. would have saved lives not lost them as you suggest… but you don’t think when you don’t like what is written, you just ridicule, insult and try to scare.
I believe 2500 people have lost their lives trying to make the crossing into the EU since AM told them to come, 2500 people whose lives might have been saved if we stopped them from coming and contained them in your laughable safe zones, it is you who needs to have a heart not me.
Now why don’t you do everyone that reads these posts a favour Brian and give it a rest!
I have not “failed to want to take in what was said” as you put it Mike. My disagreement is not due to some imagined misunderstanding. Your “safe zones” are an illusion. They do not exist. They were tried in the Bosnian war and failed with over 38,000 Muslim civilian deaths – the first genocide since WW II. They would require an extensive military presence inside Syria in order to enforce them. This is something the western powers are not prepared to contemplate. That may change, but only if they become drawn directly into the war with ‘boots on the ground.’ There is still no appetite for that, especially when up against Russian forces. That way lies WW III.
Holding all the refugees inside Turkey or Greece until the war is over and complete reconstruction of Syria is achieved would have been a safer option but it is too late now even if it were practical. The dam has burst. The leaders of both countries will not tolerate keeping them in anyway and just want rid of them. Result? Impasse. No viable compromise on the table. Chaos reigns.
With regard to your ever increasing histrionics Mike, it is you who needs to “give it a rest” as you say. I have stated before I will always give as good as I get, but you are losing control and making some really wild accusations now. I am all for healthy debate, but your chosen method is distinctly unhealthy. Time to raise the bar.
Exactly – and why should Greece and Turkey, which are far from being the wealthiest countries in Europe, have to deal with 100% of the inflow of refugees when, in the EU alone, there are 27 other countries who can, plus plenty more in wider Europe, the whole of the Americas aside from those few nations suffering crippling poverty (even Chile and Argentina offer better job opportunities than southern Europe), Australia, NZ, Japan…many of which are wealthier and have far more space and resources than Greece and Turkey. And if Greece and Turkey have taken them so far, why can’t the rest of the world? There is SO much that can be done relatively easily and nobody’s doing it. Committee syndrome, as usual. Incidentally, many of them have been in these camps in Lebanon, Turkey, Greece, et al, for years, and no terrorist attacks have happened in any of these countries, which debunks the sweeping assumption that ‘all refugees are terrorists’. Even France, which is becoming, sadly, very far-right in terms of ‘foreigners’, takes way more asylum seekers than the UK and Spain put together. Rajoy’s offered to take in 450! Big deal. Some of them would be self-supporting communities anyway. Syrian war victims need Syrians to support them, and if they’re fellow war victims, they can empathise more. They’ll need counsellors, teachers, doctors. Once established they’ll probably set up restaurants and supermarkets. Maybe even newspapers about local current affairs in Arabic!
As for everyone being able to read these comments…although they’re public and, technically, yes, they can, and aside from whether or not refugees on their SmartPhones may or may not stumble across a forum on an English-language newspaper based in Spain…how about the emotional, ethical, moral, and psychologically-damaging nature of comments they CAN and DO read?A recent Pegida-led protest in Germany against refugees coming in was seen by a large group of Syrians, and they all burst into tears and stood watching it in floods. How AWFUL – you’ve managed to get out of your war-torn home country, where you’ve lost your home and seen friends and family bleeding to death with their limbs scattered all over the street, by crawling through barbed-wire fences with a few carrier-bags of your stuff, carrying your children and propping up your elderly relatives, and then you walk into a crowd of thousands telling you to ‘get out’ because you’re ‘not wanted’. OUCH. Mass rejection is extremely hurtful even if you haven’t been through a war. And haven’t they suffered enough already?!
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