Spain gears up for Gay Pride Day

Flickr by álvaro jaramillo

RAINBOW flags are flying high and proud throughout Spain this week, fluttering from government buildings, businesses and homes in a show of support of LGBT individuals on International Gay Pride Day.
Throughout the country, LGBT advocates have been working to ensure that the day, celebrated internationally on June 28, is properly recognised. In Sevilla, the scene will be especially colourful as city councillor, Myriam Diaz, promised the city that the rainbow flag would be proudly displayed at city hall and at every civic centre in the city. Diaz, councillor for Equality, Youth, and University Community Relations, sees the multicoloured flag as a unifying symbol and pledges to work directly with LGBT associations at the city council level.
The rainbow flag will grace the city hall in Cordoba as well, where the Andalucian federation Arco Iris (Rainbow,) won a small victory, managing to convince the mayor, Isabel Ambrosio, to display the flag at the city’s local government headquarters for the first time in history.
Arco Iris, however, is concerned with more than just waving flags. Gonzalo Serrano, president of Arco Iris, is pushing for a plan to combat homophobia. His 15-measure plan – meant to be implemented at the city hall level – calls for the creation of an LGBT centre to support educators and students at the secondary school level and insists that alternative family models be included in elementary school activities.
Other measures include promoting respect for the diversity of the population and training police officers and sports staff on the norms governing discrimination and hate crimes.
Throughout the country, cities festooned with rainbow flags are planning events to celebrate International Gay Pride Day; however, in the capital city the festivities will arrive a bit late. Madrid is home to one of the biggest gay pride parades in the world, with more than two million people marching through the streets.
The event, which is so large that it overshadowed other pride events, was pushed back a week, allowing revellers to participate in smaller regional events as well. The Madrid Orgullo, or Pride, is such a large event that it has gradually turned into more of a city-wide party rather than an event advocating for gay rights. In addition to the parade – which takes place on Saturday July 4 from 6pm to midnight – visitors can also rock out to free concerts throughout the city´s plazas, attend hot parties in night clubs and cheer on participants running in drag in a stiletto high heel race.


  1. Your homophobia is equally tiresome (and even in Europe, homophobia costs lives and physical and mental health. Children’s lives are ruined by being treated as pariahs, for a start).
    We don’t have total equality, because of a small faction of society which continues to demonise us and thinks it’s perfectly okay to shout its mouth off in public about how we’re ‘abnormal’ and ‘disgusting’, because of businesses refusing to serve us like these bigoted friends of yours, and because the mere fact we hold a fiesta and street party ONE day a year – no different from the Moors and Christians, the Fallas, the patronales, etc, a street party with music and parades like any other – we’re told to go back in the closet and stop telling people who we are.
    Gay Pride is about telling the world it is okay to be yourself and love whom you choose (as long as they love you back). It’s about telling the world that heterosexual people are not entitled to higher privileges than the rest of us. We want equal rights, and until we get them – which includes not having to be subjected to bigots like you airing your offensive views all over the place – Gay Pride will continue to be necessary.
    Other than that, these days, it’s less of a protest and more of a ONE-DAY street party. If it’s not to your taste, don’t go to it. There are plenty of other fiestas you can enjoy instead – if you don’t enjoy the Moors and Christians, the Fallas and so on, don’t go to those either.
    There are still rights we have to fight for: fertility, stamping out homophobic bullying in schools (which, hopefully, will stamp out homophobia in future adults so people like you won’t make ordinary gay taxpayers’ lives a misery) widows’ and widowers’ pensions, and of course, the Church, where gay Christians, Jews and Muslims continue to be ostracised and which has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with the prejudice of a few fossils who cherry-pick their Holy texts in accordance with their own agenda and who actually believe we should all live our lives according to Leviticus, ie prehistoric times when slave-ownership and non-virgin-stoning was the norm.
    You don’t even personally know anyone who’s gay, you’re not gay yourself, so you can’t possibly know whether we have equal rights or not. In the UK, marriage has only been legal for a year; we achieved that by campaigning. We’ve achieved a lot by campaigning; if we’d just ‘kept ourselves quiet’ and done nothing about discrimination, we wouldn’t be where we are today. Now, we’ll continue until full equality is ours and we don’t have to be subjected to homophobes, and neither do our children. Once that’s done, we’ll turn our attention to the third world (homophobia is a third-world malady; it has no place in the west). And once the world is equal, Gay Pride will just be a fiesta like any other. Mostly, it is. Not all fiestas are to everyone’s taste; well, don’t go to them then.

  2. Its bad enough that we now have to endure the spectre of men in skimpy outfits, often showing off their private parts to the crowd during a parade, but for this to be encouraged by councils and the government in Spain is disgraceful.
    It is never enough for these people to have gained the right to cohabit and even marry without them shoving it in everyone’s face all the time.
    I may well get some stinging comments on this comment, but I am homophobic and proud of it.

  3. That’s ok, Roy. At least you are honest, and even strangely proud, of your affliction. You must also have attended more of these parades than many of us, as I for one have never seen men showing off ‘private parts’, as you so delicately put it, in such parades.

    You also seem unaware of the daily spectacles of women, some even without clothing on their top halves (that’s me being equally delicate), shoving their heterosexuality in everyone’s faces lolling about with their half-naked menfolks on almost every beach. And in full view of children. Shameful.

    You are have every right to be prudish but I can’t help wonder why it’s only one section of society that has to suffer your wrath.

    I may get some stinging comments on this comment, but I am homosexual and proud of it.

  4. Well said Stuart, Roy is obviously not a very bright guy, maybe he’s in the closet himself as a lot of homophobes are lol to be going to all these parades looking at so called private parts hanging out. lol maybe he was dreaming

  5. It’s men like Roy Peters who make me realise I’m quite lucky to be a lesbian, actually.
    I do get fed up with heterosexuality being shoved in my face, too. But it’s everywhere and I have to put up with it.
    Not sure what you mean about ‘men in skimpy clothes’: being gay is about the gender of the people you fall in love with, it has nothing to do with fashion.
    BTW, ‘these people’ are ordinary, fellow members of taxpaying, law-abiding society who have the right to the same privileges as ‘the rest’. Marriage between any couple, regardless of gender, is nobody’s business but their own.
    And heterosexual men behave far worse, especially after tanking themselves up with alcohol. There are actually bars I avoid now because I get fed up with creepy, slimy comments, leering, suggestiveness and invasion of my personal space by men I don’t know and don’t want to either. Perhaps instead of criticising those who prefer the other gender, straight men should learn some decorum, social skills and basic respect for other humans.
    And no, telling them I’m a lesbian doesn’t get them off my back: if anything, it makes them try harder, as though they’re so goddamn irresistible that even a lesbian couldn’t fail to be attracted to them.
    RP, is there a country in the world where you would be imprisoned or killed if you were ‘found out’ to be heterosexual? Have you lost jobs because you weren’t heterosexual? Lost friends? Had your family turn against you? Been unable to marry your partner? Been hit with massive inheritance tax because you weren’t married as the government wouldn’t let you? Been refused to visit your partner in hospital because you’re ‘not family’, as you were not allowed to marry?
    Walk a mile in my shoes before you judge me for something that’s in my DNA, which is totally harmless to me and to anyone else, and doesn’t affect you in the slightest.
    Every day is ‘Pride day’ for heterosexuals. I think we homosexuals ought to be allowed one in 365 where we don’t feel invisible, ostracised or worry about killing a conversation stone-dead just by mentioning the gender of our beloved.

  6. Chris, I find your comment somewhat offensive, but not to worry, I put it down to your level of education. So far as the rest of your comment is concerned, you only have to look on the internet to find scenes in gay parades with men pulling down their shorts to reveal their PP’s.
    I am someone who was brought up in the days when such people were kept ‘in the closet’, and I must say that was much more preferable than today where they flaunt it before everyone, even children. You can make all the excuses you like, but it is NOT natural.

  7. Seems quite natural to me, Roy but moving on. It’s odd that when someone insults you it’s down to a lack of education but when you insult gay men you assume it to be fair comment. Another example of your one-sided view of life; everyone has to live by your rules. Live and let live Roy and you’ll be a much happier person.

  8. Stuart, I have never said that people must live by ‘my rules’. I was brought up during a period when respect, honesty and and a freedom of expression were paramount. These days people are not allowed to say what they feel for fear of ‘upsetting someone’.
    I have always stuck to my core beliefs that homosexuality is not natural. I am an extremely happy person for I have everyhthing I could wish for, a beautiful wife (female) and a happy existance.
    I just don’t believe that homosexuality is right and I believe this will come home to everyone in a few years when the adopted children with two fathers are old enough to understand their predicament. Such practices are unnatural and will have consequences no matter what ‘knowing’ people say today.

  9. Lack of education is what creates prejudice and bigotry, because it means limited intelligence and ability to analyse, empathise, and realise there’s more to life than your own personal norms. People with a lack of education are statistically more likely to stay within their comfort-zone communities – straight WASPs, in the case of the MINORITY of LGB-haters who, unfortunately, haven’t been bred out of circulation yet. Ghettos, in other words: break out of your ghetto of homogeneous others, and you’ll find a vast range of cultures, lifestyles, people, values, beliefs…and be enriched for it. Isn’t that the entire point of our all having moved to Spain, to mix with those ‘others’?

    If it wasn’t natural, then 10% of the population wouldn’t be gay, homosexuality and bisexualty wouldn’t have been documented as far back as Ancient Greece and Rome, 1,500 species of animals wouldn’t practise homosexuality, and children of nine or 10 wouldn’t start to feel they were ‘different’ before they’d even been taught the birds and the bees. It’s genetic, you can no more help it than you can help your height or star sign. In my short little life I’ve probably met, and spoken to if only briefly, an estimated 2,000 to 3,000 people, of whom about 20 were lesbians. Yet out of my Grandma’s four grandchildren, the two boys are hetero and we two girls are BOTH lesbians. So it’s clearly in the DNA. But who cares? For a lesbian, all that means is her future beloved will be female, not male. For a gay man, all that means is his future beloved will be a man rather than a woman. Absolutely no other difference. What does it matter?

    As for men displaying their privates in public, that isn’t a gay thing, it’s just a man thing. And whilst most gay men do in fact show decorum and respect in public, the anti-social behaviour of a high number of straight men is simply deplorable. They assume all women would be flattered to be ogled at, chatted up by creepy, slimy letches, and have beer breathed all over them and their bums grabbed, or put up with cringeworthy chat-up lines shouted across the street, bar, or from cars. I’ve got news for you: We don’t. And not just lesbians, but most straight women, too. If the latter are attracted to a man, they’ll strike up conversation and get to know him as a friend. Any slippery scumball who phwoars at them is instantly ruled out.

    In my day, straight men were gentlemen and those who weren’t, the unpresentable buffoons, stayed in the closet. Pity they don’t stay there now.

    Luckily I don’t have to live with them, because I’m a lesbian – thank God. The few straight men I do mix with are mostly family, and are all proper gentlemen with consideration for others and respect for women; if they weren’t, I wouldn’t mix with them, ‘y punto’.

    If ‘education’ has anything to do with it, one would assume all gay people were pretty thick and all straight people pretty bright. I have an IQ of over 140, two degrees, two masters, and I read novels in six languages for PLEASURE. But before I had these, I was still a lesbian. And I’ve yet to find a straight man who can beat THAT.

    Methinks thou doth protest too much, RP. Is there a side to yourself you’re not comfortable with? I can remember delivering a public, homophobic rant aged 16 in school and (quite rightly) being shot down in flames. The reason being that I was terrified anyone would find out who I really was. Interestingly, that bunch of teenagers all saw through it and, years later, told me they’d known all along I was gay and my vitriol in class merely confirmed it.

    Comes to something when my 90-year-old Grandma has been to two lesbian weddings (her neighbours, and my cousin’s. She’s been pestering me to make it a third, and I’m trying very hard to. She did the flowers for her neighbours’ wedding, and gives sweets and toys to their two turkey-baster children) and says Jesus loves us all anyway and is happy for us…and yet a man probably 20-30 years younger than her still hates an entire segment of the population for nothing more than our genetic makeup.

  10. Respect and honesty’ are still paramount, which is why we should be allowed to be ‘honest’ about the gender of our chosen partners and the rest of you should ‘respect’ us as fellow humans and members of society who live our PRIVATE lives as we wish to and in a way that not only doesn’t harm you, but is actually none of your business.

    It’s a shame, isn’t it, though…freedom of speech is on the decline these days…I mean, just imagine, I can’t even call Roy Peters a %&[email protected]¿^+* #!ç$ñ{, can I, without fear of ‘upsetting someone’!!!!! That’s so unfair – I mean, if freedom of speech is a ‘thing’ still, then why can’t I call RP whatever I want without getting stinging comments in return? Censorship, that’s what I call it.

    (You see how your pointless argument falls down? If what you have to say is disrespectful and offensive, freedom of speech or not, you just don’t say it. You might not go to prison for it, but you will show yourself up as someone with no class or social empathy and someone who has a LOT to learn about the human race).

    That a homosexual relationship wouldn’t be natural for you, personally, RP, is exactly the point: you’re heterosexual. Of course it wouldn’t be natural for you to become involved with a man. Likewise, I’m homosexual, I’m a lesbian, so it wouldn’t be natural for me to have a heterosexual relationship, or be in any way involved with a man. For gay people, to have mixed-sex relationships would be unnatural. For straight people, to have a same-sex relationship would be unnatural.

    You see, that’s kind of the point, isn’t it, about what ‘gay’ and ‘straight’ actually mean??? Nobody’s expecting you to DO it, just not to insult those for whom it IS, in fact, natural.

    If you mean the concept itself isn’t ‘natural’, explain 1,500 species of animals. Explain how it was happening in Ancient Greece and has done throughout history. Explain gay children (yes, really. They exist. Every gay adult has once been a gay child – and known it).

    All the children of gay parents I’ve ever met have, actually, been more tolerant and open-minded (they were born with ‘differences’ in their families) and far closer to their parents (they have to defend their beloved mums or dads to people like you who spread hatred). My ex-girlfriend’s children, a boy and a girl, have both turned out to be lovely adults, successful, highly-qualified and with lovely, sweet, charming children of their own.

    Now, just imagine one of your OWN children had turned out to be gay. And their own father called them unnatural. That’s never going to happen with gay parents – who had to make a very conscious (and expensive) decision to have them, therefore they really, genuinely wanted them, rather than just ‘by accident’ or because ‘everyone else does it’ – gay parents know what discrimination, isolation, revulsion, watching their every word for fear of social or professional reprisal, and invisibility feel like. They’ll do what they can to shelter their children from that, or to teach them how to handle it. But there remain, unfortunately, a very tiny minority of straight parents who, instead of sheltering their kids from it, would actually put them through it by insulting their orientation and isolating their own children even more.

    When you’re a child, even an adult child, your parents don’t have a ‘gender’ anyway – they’re just parents. I don’t think of my dad as a man or my mum as a woman (nor vice versa!) they’re my parents, for better or worse, and that’s it.

    Anyway, natural???? Heroin is natural. So’s arsenic. So’s marihuana. So’s Deadly Nightshade. But sunscreen and toilet paper aren’t. I think sunscreen and toilet paper, for all they’re (wo)man-made, are far healthier and more useful than arsenic or crack.

  11. Kally, we each have our own view on life and it may suprise you, but we ARE all entitled to it! You are a lesbian, so be it, you have your views, I have mine. I do not have to justify to you or anyone else why I hold the views I do, it is the way I was brought up at a time when such activity was frowned upon. I am against it and will be until the day I die.
    Like you I am entitled to my opinion, and if I wish to comment on a news article I will, just as you do.
    You really don’t have to consistanly try to justify what you are to me, that is your business, but that does not mean that I have to accept LBGT.

    I have purely stated my opinion on the matter and you don’t have to like it, I am not asking you to, I don’t care who is right and who is wrong, its just the way it is.

    Not wishing to go into this too much, but I was brought up a Christian and such things are against the teachings of my religion.

    Most importantly, being brought up a Christian taught me from the cradle that truth, morality, honesty and respect are the four most essential tributes in life, sadly that is no longer so.

    The trouble is we have so many atheists and agnostics around these days that nobody cares a damn anymore about these things, or at least only when it suits them. This is one of the reasons why so many people are the way they are today, dishonest, greedy, violent, and with a total lack of morality.

    Since when in our previous history have we seen so many pregnant teens, so many very young teens with children, often unmarried and being supported by the tax payer? Since when have we had almost daily murders, some by children as young as nine or ten? Since when do we see comotose young gilrs lying on the pavements on a Saturday night after a night binge-drinking? Since when are many people afraid of walking down a street in town at night for fear of getting attacked by a gang of youths? Since when do people fear going into town on a Friday or Saturday night because of all the fights that break out among teenagers after heavy drinking?

    Answer me these questions and tell me where we have all gone wrong. This permissive age is slowly strangling us and there is nothing we can do about it.
    To finish, all I can say is that I am glad I am not a teenager in this ‘age of enlightenment’ but am quite happy being the age I am, with if I’m lucky, still a few years ahead of me.

    I have said all I wanted to say and for me that is the end of it. Live your life as you see fit Kally, and just because I do not agree with your choice does not mean that I don’t wish you well.

  12. Roy, your not even worth replying to, I just hope the gay members of your family see your ignorant, bigoted remarks and please don’t be so dumb to think some of the relatives that you love are not gay. Send Roy back to the stone age where he belongs I say. One thing in this world that isn’t normal or natural is YOU.

  13. Roy, I don’t have to justify myself to you or anyone. And although you’re entitled to your bigoted opinion about people you’ll never meet,about what they do in their private lives(which is none of your business) and which doesn’t and never will affect you in the slightest, your comments to that effect are downright offensive and have no place on any public forum.On many sites, you would have been deleted and blocked for incitement to hatred. Be a bigot, sure, but in silence. Your views are disrespectful.
    I’m presuming you were brought up prior to Ancient Greece and Rome,as homosexuality was very common and very open then. But you were probably brought up at a time in the 20th century when women who were raped were considered sluts, those who ended up pregnant through rape were considered even worse sluts, people crossed the street to avoid ‘blacks’, and women couldn’t have a bank account or a mortgage in their own name and were denied promotions at work if they married. Are these the days you want to return to? Luckily, then, you’re in a minority.
    I, too, was brought up as a Christian and have read the bible from cover to cover – several times. Only in a few places which radicals who claim to be ‘Christians’ cherry-pick and interpret to suit themselves could it possibly be inferred that, in prehistoric times and up to approximately 400-500BC, homosexuality went ‘against the word of God’. We don’t live in Ancient Israel, and you have NO idea what God thinks, so don’t you dare try to speak in his/her name. My 90-year-old Grandma is a devout and practising Christian and loves her two lesbian granddaughters and her lesbian neighbours – she went to all their weddings and I hope she’s around long enough to come to mine.
    I suggest you adopt a more Christian attitude, if that’s the way you were brought up, and follow the teachings of JC: love, acceptance, tolerance, EQUALITY and RESPECT. You clearly have no respect whatsoever for 10% of the population who have done you no harm and you would wish upon them fewer privileges and legal protection than you, personally enjoy. That goes against all the Christian teaching I’ve ever had.
    I fail to see how a person you don’t know and never will getting married to their significant other and being happy ever after has anything to do with murder, child molesting, pub fights or teenage pregnancy, but none of this applies to Spain. A woman can walk down a deserted street at the dead of night here without being afraid. Teenagers gathered together on street corners are normally just socialising with each other and rarely cause trouble, even if they’re drinking. The average age in Spain for a first-time mum is 32, and teenage pregnancy is extremely rare. If it did happen, the family would rally round and she would continue living with them until she and her child were in a position to buy or rent their own place. So you haven’t paid much attention to what’s going on in this country if the picture you paint is what you believe happens here. The taxpayer gives NOTHING to mums in Spain with fewer than three children, whether or not she’s a teenager.
    And all that was pretty rife in ’60s UK, too…especially the drug scene.
    For info, I wasn’t ‘brought up gay’ either. I was simply born this way. And yes, my family turned against me at a very young age and I had a big battle on my hands. Luckily times have changed and they would now lynch anyone who criticised me for my DNA. You can’t ‘disagree’ with someone’s basic genetic makeup – would you ‘disapprove’ of someone for having red hair or being six feet tall????

    I’m not sure of your age, but I expect you have children, maybe nieces and nephews, possibly grandchildren. There may well be some young kids in your family. What will you do if they turn out to be gay? What would you have done if your own children had discovered they were lesbians? Reject them, too? Refuse to go to their weddings, the happiest days of their lives? Refuse to have anything to do with their husbands or wives? Reject their children as well?
    My, what a VERY Christian attitude. I’m sure Jesus would approve of your turning your back on your own family. Most of us were children or young teenagers when we worked it out; that means turning your back on very vulnerable kids who could use the support of their dad/granddad/uncle. Kids used to go through hell at school for it, and at times still do. Many attempted suicide at as young as 11 or 12 as they were considered ‘sick’. Many adults are estranged from their parents because they were rejected, insulted and emotionally damaged.
    This is not the result of being gay – it’s society’s narrow-minded attitude which, thankfully, is changing now.
    And don’t go thinking it ‘couldn’t happen to your family’. We’re 10% of the population and it can strike anywhere. Remember, the majority of gay people have heterosexual parents.

  14. (And you don’t see the irony, do you…women raped and killed on the street at night are attacked by HETEROSEXUAL men. Teenage girls who get pregnant are HETEROSEXUAL and the boys who got them pregnant are HETEROSEXUAL. So, where do gay, lesbian and bisexual people come into that?!
    I repeat: If you want to be a bigot with extremely offensive and insulting ideas about literally millions of people around the world you don’t know, do it in private. Everyone’s entitled to comment on news stories, but not to attack others – and your comments about the LGB community are an attack, and disrespectful; I was brought up in an era where you didn’t publicly offend others, so keep it in the closet, please).
    (As for gay men showing off their privates, I’ve been in Benidorm recently and seen an entire stag-party of STRAIGHT men wearing male bikinis: hairy bottoms totally naked and nothing covered at all except their front ‘bit’, the shape of which was very easy to make out with their tight ‘mankinis’. AND they sat down in this garb on a restaurant table. Bare behinds on public seats, and practically naked bodies, topless and nearly bottomless, in a place where people were eating. Gay Pride fiestas are positively genteel in comparison with some of the sights you put up with when straight people are out on the razz).

  15. Kally, isn’t that just what I have been saying? Like everyone else I am well aware of the things you say here, but it just emphasises the lack of morals and respect these days. All to do with ‘our permissive age’.
    It’s like the drunken attitudes of today’s youth when they go to Magluf on holiday which has recently been complained about.
    I am not saying that LGBT people are any better or worse, and I am not makiing excuses for those who are ‘straight’.
    I am simply stating that I do not condone this age where anything goes! It is time EVERYONE got back to the period when people had respect, honesty and morality!

  16. My mother told me that if I had nothing nice to say I should resist any temptation to be quiet and speak what I feel. Roy, Roy, you’ve dug deep enough…stop now before even more people realise what a sad specimen of humanity you are. Lesbians and Gays around the world are victimised by terrible laws and in some countries can be put to death. Is that something you approve of? Pride is a very important day and celebration to show the world that it’s ok to be gay and gays want nothing more than equality. Nothing more. You say “I am homophobic and proud of it?” That’s like saying you’re racist and proud of it. You’re like a heterosexual Mr Scrooge…well..BUMHUG SIR! BUMHUG!!!

  17. Nick, You have your views and I have mine. Like everyone else I have the right to air my views on this subject. That’s what this column is all about – so people can comment on news items.
    I made a simple atatement but it got out of hand because of all the nasty comments I got in reply. Don’t think for one minute I am racist for that is not true, I just do not approve of LBGT and all it entails.
    I think you will find that if you check the pluses and minuses on comments I am winning, so what does that say to you? But that is not important, I, like everyone else have the right to comment, and I will continue to do so whenever I feel like it (as should you).

  18. I don’t condone drunken antics and anti-social behaviour either (especially the spoilt Brits who give Magaluf a bad name) but I don’t see what they have to do with people who are BORN gay or lesbian being allowed equal rights to the other 80-90% of the population. I think you’ll find most people who commit these revolting deeds, such as those reported in Magaluf, are heterosexual.
    If by ‘everything goes’, you mean we no longer have to treat our loving relationships as a dirty secret, and instead can be free from persecution, isolation and being ostracised, and can enjoy the same legal rights and protections as any other decent, law-abiding, tax-paying citizen, and that we do not have to put up with verbal or physical attacks in public, then I’m all for the ‘everything goes’ bit.

  19. OMG, sorry, Nick, I meant to give you a thumbs-up and hit the wrong button!!! :-O
    You’re absolutely right, and this is what gay people like me have been trying to drill into the thick skulls of the bigoted minority who would wish isolation, rejection, persecution and a life of ducking and hiding and pretending to be someone else on people they’ll never meet. Fortunately, there aren’t many of those bigots left, but the mere fact there ARE still people who hold Roy Peters’ views shows we still have a long way to go, even in the west, before equality is truly ours and Gay Pride fiestas become unnecessary.
    The fact Gay Pride and other demonstrations in favour of our EQUAL rights ever became necessary in the first place was because heterosexual society made it that way. You didn’t need Pride in Ancient Rome, because it was just an accepted alternative way of life and was even more common than it is today (unless today, fewer people are willing to admit it because of fear of prejudiced, narrow-minded individuals).

  20. You made a ‘simple’ and VERY offensive statement which has upset a lot of those LGB people you ‘disapprove of’. YOU began the nasty comments, not the rest of us. Did you expect anyone to stay silent in response to such prejudice???
    You may not be racist, but homophobia and racism are equally as bad. Saying you ‘do not approve of’ people being BORN gay is like saying you ‘do not approve’ of people being BORN black. And saying you disagree with us gay people having the same rights and protections as any other taxpayer is the same as saying you believe blacks should have fewer rights than whites.
    I repeat: If your comments are offensive and disrespectful, you do NOT have the right to make them. Stop trying to shield yourself behind that tired old argument about ‘freedom of speech’: if we all did that, it would be okay to tell people to their face that they were fat, ugly or stupid. That’s nice, isn’t it? It would also be okay to tell black people to their face that we wish they would stay in the closet and stop shoving their presence down white people’s throats or expecting equal treatment, like being able to marry. That would be unthinkable, and totally objectionable.
    But it’s the same as you did and are doing on this thread: Racism is NO different to homophobia, sexism is NO different to homophobia, all three are repulsed by society, dangerous, disgusting, unnecessary and are incitement to hatred.
    If you hate six million Brits and 4.6 million Spaniards because of something they were BORN with – just like they were born with their height, skin colour or date of birth – for absolutely no reason whatsoever, keep this irrational and dangerous hatred to yourself and don’t air your dirty washing in public.
    The same goes for anyone who is racist or sexist.

  21. Kally, I think that if a nation-wide poll were to be carried out on the subject of ‘Gay’ marriage you would be shocked by the results. Those who agree with it are in the main the young folks because they do not know any better, but on the other side, I think you will find that most of those over say, 35 or 40 would be solidly against the idea.
    No-one yet knows how the children of homosexual parents will turn out because they are all too young.
    Any child that grows up with e.g. two fathers is going to have trouble in later life in my view. They could have anxiety problems or worse because they will find it hard to fit in. I may be wrong and for their sakes I hope I am. Only time will tell.

  22. Kally, it would seem you love to go off on a tangent because at NO POINT have I made a ‘RACIST’ remark. There is nothing racist about me, I just don’t approve of today’s permissive society where anything goes. I do not approve of ‘gay’ marriage or adoption and that is all there is to it. Strange though it may seem to you, I do have the right to an opinion.

    You are constantly equating being against homosexuality with hating black people which is nonsense. The core issue here is homosexuality so leave the racist comments out of it.

    That these things exist today is something I do not agree with, but what I do find the most disgraceful is the Spanish GOVERNMENT AND COUNCILS actively ENCOURAGING this deviance with their campaign of flying ‘Gay’ flags etc.

    Its here and nothing will now ever change that, but I for one do not want to see city and town centres decorated with rainbow flags everywhere as a constant reminder.

    So just live your life like any other human being and stop jumping on the bandwagon every time someone says something you don’t like! Your arguements are not doing anything to persuade others that you are right, just the opposite.

  23. BTW, if they suffer ‘anxiety because they find it hard to fit in’, (a) that’s what gay people, especially gay children, have all suffered, and ENTIRELY as a result of people with views like yours; and (b) it’s accepted nowadays (the referendum in Ireland is a good example) and anyone who rejects or taunts kids of gay parents will, these days, find THEMSELVES not fitting in because of their outdated views.
    If children whose parents are gay suffer for it at the hands of others, that’s not the fault of their parents for being gay. It’s the fault of narrow-minded bigots in society. It was heterosexual society that forced us into isolation, self-hatred, eating disorders, suicide attempts, job loss, friend loss, massive inheritance tax bills, and having to pass off our lifelong ‘spouses’ as a ‘friend’ or ‘flatmate’. Being gay didn’t cause that for us: it was straight people in society who decided that’s what we should have to suffer.
    Just imagine if your wife was in hospital and you were not allowed to visit her because you were ‘not family’, as the government wouldn’t let you marry. Just imagine if you had to tell everyone your wife was your ‘lodger’ or ‘friend’. Or that you were HER lodger. Because if you introduced her as your ‘partner’ (not spouse. You can’t legally marry) you’d be accused of ‘shoving your views down people’s throats’. Now just imagine you died and your wife had to pay top-whack ‘total stranger’ rates in inheritance tax just to keep your joint home. Or the same in reverse. Just imagine you went on holiday somewhere and, quite naïvely, forgot to check out its laws and legal structure on the foreign office website, held hands in the street by instinct, and found yourselves shoved in jail and beaten up because you’d committed a crime. Just imagine being TERRIFIED at work that someone would find out you lived with your ‘wife’ (but not really your wife; you can’t get married) because if anyone did, you’d be fired within the week on some trumped-up excuse. And just imagine ALL your friends trying to fix you up on dates with men, when you had a ‘wife’ at home and didn’t want a boyfriend, thank you very much.
    Just imagine being invited to all your siblings’ and friends’ weddings, and knowing that nobody was going to be there for your special day because you aren’t allowed to have one. And if you had a ‘make believe’ or ‘pretend’ one (insultingly, many gay couples have had to do that in the past because they weren’t allowed a ‘real’ wedding) your entire family refused to come because they didn’t agree with your ‘marrying’ your wife.
    What gay people want in the main is to meet their true love, marry him or her, and live happily ever after – rather like you’ve been allowed to do with your own wife and without question or prejudice from wider society. If we have children, it’s because we WANT them: it’s an expensive decision that has to be made carefully, so it won’t happen on a whim or by accident. It’s a far bigger investment for us than for people like you, so those children will be very much loved and wanted, and very precious.
    Personally, I’m not too bothered about having children, but if I was, I’d have no choice but to pay thousands of euros to be inseminated. How many females have to face that?!
    (Although, if there’s a gay male couple out there gasping to be fathers, contact me and maybe we can come to some arrangement…)
    RP, you do NOT know what you’re talking about. You have NO experience of what life for a gay person is like in or out of the closet. You don’t even mix with gay people or have any close friends who are. If you’re talking from a standpoint of total ignorance, don’t. You’ll make yourself look silly. I would never comment on something I didn’t understand, because I’m not qualified to do so. I’ll leave it to those who are, and certainly wouldn’t be insulting towards them.

  24. In a sea of stupid comments from you, Roy, you’ve really excelled yourself here.

    I am probably of a similar era to yourself judging by your photo and, you may be surprised to hear,there are hundreds of thousands of men & women like me who think everyone should be allowed to live their life as THEY wish, provided that they are affecting nobody else and not causing anyone any harm which we are not, and that they should not have to suffer the vile insults that you peddle as ‘free speech’.

    Apparantly you feel justified in insulting anyone who does not agree with your limited view of the world -apparently young people are also in your firing line now being not intelligent enough to make up their own minds it seems. Do you ever stop?

    Were it left to you and your ‘why not keep it as it was’ views we would still be transporting people across continents to use as slaves and sending small children up chimneys – not to mention treating wives as property. And don’t say you would not have agreed with those things – people like you were much in favour of keeping the status quo in the past and you are no different other than in subject.

    In truth I’m not particularly bothered what percentage of what age group are for or against the idea of people like me. It is an irrelevance to me – I exist, I was born of heterosexual parents (without getting into trouble later in life) and, once you and your ilk have disappeared, children (gay or straight) in the future will have no trouble fitting in. You see the problem is YOU not them!

    However, you are unlikely to ever change, as you have said yourself, so all we can do is wait for your demise, and that of those dinosaurs like you, and future generations should find a world a better place for all human-kind.

  25. Wrong, I’m afraid, Roy. You’re more in the minority than LGB people themselves are. Nationwide polls have been carried out in several western countries, including Spain and the UK, and an average of seven in 10 are in favour. The latest poll in Spain showed 71.7% agreed. And no, it is not just ‘the young who don’t know any better’. I’m not far off 40 myself, and most people of my parents’ generation are in favour of EQUAL rights for ALL law-abiding taxpayers and for EVERYONE, irrespective of colour, race, gender or sexual orientation to be allowed to live their private lives in peace. Which is quite correct, because it’s none of their business (or yours) whether a couple you’ll never meet are able to tie the knot and be safe and happy together.
    You’re assuming gay people are ‘only just starting to’ have children. Again, you’re wrong. Gay adults are only just starti ng to NOT have children. I met countless adult lesbians in my teens who had children, and they were ALL, without fail, much closer to their parents than the teenagers in my class at school. Their parents have known prejudice, isolation and ill-treatment because of something they were born with and couldn’t help, so their children are ‘aware’ of differences and are taught how to handle such negativity – and sheltered from it where possible. They have also had to fly in their parents’ defence against narrow-minded bigots.
    My ex-girlfriend’s children are 33 and 35, with children of their own. The daughter’s an accountant and the son’s an estate agent, her son is now 15 and a lovely, sweet, polite and thoughtful little boy (how rare is that for a teenager??) both these ‘children of a deviant mother’ own their own homes, have lots of friends, and a very close, strong relationship with their mum.
    Incidentally, their father was also gay, and they had a fantastic relationship wit h him before he died suddenly when they were in their 20s.
    Gay people have been having children for decades, if not longer. They’d either pay for insemination the case of women, or men would ‘come to some arrangement’ with a female friend, often a lesbian herself.
    There are plenty of children who grow up with a single mother, or a single father, and who turn out fine. Sometimes because the other parent turned their back on them as babies. Sometimes because one partner has died young.
    There are plenty of children of two married heterosexual parents who end up with serious psychological problems and even end up in care.
    A lot of gay children of heterosexual, married parents, until very recently, had psychological problems and no relationship whatsoever with their mum and dad, because they were rejected and insulted when they were brave enough to break it to their parents.
    As for the new crop of children born to or adopted by gay parents, a key to how they’ll turn out is, rather like with mixed-sex parents, how they’re treated and loved (or otherwise) in childhood. My Grandma’s neighbours are the most loving, devoted mums and their children are polite and sweet.
    Parents don’t have a gender when you’re a child, even an adult child. I don’t think of my dad as a man (thank goodness) I just think of him as a human teddy-bear. Parents are just parents, and their gender has nothing to do with your relationship with them.
    Incidentally, over 20 years ago, I read a story about a young girl in care who had been sexually abused by her father and insisted to the home that she did not want to be fostered in a mixed-sex family. Back then it ‘wasn’t done’, but she said she would only go to either a single mother or a lesbian couple. The article was written years later and she had since been adopted, and loved her two mums very much.
    Single mums cope well enough if they have a son, and single dads cope well enough if they have a daught er, so there’s not reason why two of the same shouldn’t. And if they don’t, most of them have friends or relatives of the opposite sex their children can talk to about certain more ‘delicate’ issues that one would normally seek a confidante of the same sex for.
    That said, my dad taught me about the birds and the bees and about periods. I asked him AND mum questions about both.
    You’re just being judgmental and you have no proof or experience of what you’re asserting. Your unhealthy prejudices are in the MINORITY.

  26. You acknowledge racism and sexism is bad. Well, homophobia is EQUALLY as bad, because it is EQUALLY as prejudiced and insulting towards a whole sector of society which just wants to live its life and be afforded the same rights.
    The core issue is your homophobia, which is EVERY BIT AS DEPLORABLE as racism. Don’t try to pretend it’s ‘just your personal view’ and you ‘have a right to state it’. You do not. The Spanish Constitution, British laws and the European Bill of Human Rights outlaws discrimination of anyone on the grounds of sexual orientation, just as it does on the grounds of race or gender. However you dress it up, your ‘views’ are merely an incitement to hatred and you are no better than a racist or a person who would want to keep women down.
    Governments and councils have embraced EQUALITY for their EQUAL taxpayers who have EQUAL rights, and want to give us ONE day of the year where we don’t have to feel ostracised and invisible. You get 364 days of the year already, so stop complaining. You are in the minority, sorry.
    And please stop justifying yourself by saying you’re ‘entitled to your personal views’. You’re entitled to hatred and prejudice in private, but don’t air your dirty washing on a public forum. You have insulted and attacked, collectively, millions of people who have never met you and wouldn’t want to anyway. You do not have a right to do this, freedom of speech or otherwise. Your views are dangerous, repulsive and offensive, and have no place in public.
    Don’t consider yourself ‘above’ racism because that’s not your personal pet prejudice. Homophobia is EVERY bit as reviled and illegal as racism, so you are no better than people who insult black people or women.
    I’m not trying to persuade you I’m right (just to point out that the majority of society who agrees with equal rights and human rights are correct) because you can’t argue with a closed mind.

  27. Because most heterosexual men think their fat, hairy bodies are soooo irresistible that they’ll have women falling at their feet. Uuuuuugh. (Enough to turn me lesbian even if I wasn’t already). And because heterosexual men on stag parties get blindly drunk and become anti-social and lack any class or decorum.
    Gay men haven’t had many stag parties yet…because marriage for same-sex couples is relatively new.

  28. ” Gay people are pretending to be normal and marrying straight people men and women.” That’s because of people who STILL discriminate against them, forcing them into the closet and forcing them to ‘pretend’ to be heterosexual (not ‘normal’: gay people ARE normal. They fall in love, they have relationships, they get married, they break up, just like straight people do). If society didn’t give us so much flak nobody would have to ‘pretend’ and marry the opposite sex, making themselves and their unloved spouse miserable.
    As for ‘not having a clue’ about having children, nobody does when they first have children. There are many couples – straight ones – who should probably not be allowed to, because of the appalling way they treat their kids. Luckily, these days they’re in the minority. My mother had me when she was 22, and most of her generation had children between about 18 and 23; after that, they were considered to be ‘leaving it a bit late’. Nowadays, a mother of 18 or 22 would be considered practical a schoolgirl and way too inexperienced. It’s all relative. It’s how you cope and how determined you are to give your child the best in life and shape him or her into a caring, thoughtful adult.
    I haven’t sinned; I was just born, that’s all. If I’m a ‘sinner’ purely because of being a lesbian, what do you suggest I do about it? Commit suicide and relieve the world of one more ‘deviant’????

  29. Stuart, it appears that neither you nor Kally seem to think that I have a right to an opinion.

    I find your third paragraph somewhat insulting, for you know nothing about me or what my childhood was like, nor the times I grew up in! You are making assumptions that you have no right to. “Vile insults”, where did you get that from?

    I have done no more than say that I do not agree with the path the Spanish authorities are going down and and I do not agree with same-sex marriage or adoption. That’s it! It was a general statement that Kally and yourself seem to have taken as a personal insult!!!!

    If you had written that all old people should be put down I would not have batted an eyelid, because, even though in your shoes I might have taken it as a personnal insult, I myself would not because it is just an opinion.

    I have not directly insulted anyone, (except for Chris who ‘cast the first stone’) unlike you with your
    “‘why not keep it as it was’ views we would still be transporting people across continents to use as slaves and sending small children up chimneys – not to mention treating wives as property.” That is not my view and never has been.

    People like yourself and Kally seem to think that anyone can comment on anything in the world EXCEPT homosexuality, for then you take it as a PERSONAL insult. Would you have got so hot under the collar if I said I did not like the Prime Minister or Man. United? No of course not.

    Just accept the fact that not everyone is like you, and does not necessarily agree with the freedoms you now have.

    Like you and Kally agreed, everyone has the right to an opinion and I have put forth mine. So just take it as an opinion, NOT aimed at any individual and leave it at that!

  30. Kally, it is difficult to accept polls these days because it all depends on how large the sample is. Many polls ask a thousand people and then call it as the results for the whole country – and don’t deny it!

    It also depends on who is asked, ask 800 youngsters and 200 older people and you get the result you want. Just saying!!!! I don’t put much faith in polls these days. Rememeber what happened at the last election!!!!!

    I am sure there are young people who have grown up normally with homosexual parents but equally there may be those that have not. You may well have been lucky in your experiences.

    It does not matter to me, for all I have put forward is my opinion on the situation and said I do not agree with it. If people like you and Stuart wish to take it personally that is your business, but you should NOT. It was not against any one particular person.

  31. “Its bad enough that we now have to endure the spectre of men in skimpy outfits, often showing off their private parts to the crowd during a parade, but for this to be encouraged by councils and the government in Spain is disgraceful.
    It is never enough for these people to have gained the right to cohabit and even marry without them shoving it in everyone’s face all the time.”

    THis is what I wrote in the beginning, remember it? My complaint was(a) the way some people behave during ‘Gay’ parades, and (b) the fact that the Spanish government is promoting it. As to the second paragraph, it points out that homosexuals and the like never let things alone.

    These words are my opinion on the subject and in no way INCITE HATRED as you put it.

    First you wanted recognition – you got it. Then you wanted to be married – you got it. Now you want to be married in a church – pending. I hope for the sake of all good Christians that you never get it.

    I once wrote a blog about a DEVOUT Christian couple who were sued by two homosexuals because they would not allow them to say in the same room, despite the fact that this same couple had made it clear in advertisments that they would not let ANYONE stay in the same room if they were not married. It was against their profound beliefs but they lost the case AND THEIR HOTEL because they could not pay the fine the courts imposed on them.

    There was also the case of a DEVOUT Christian Northern Ireland baker who almost lost his business because he would not make a cake for a meeting of homosexual people. The case went against him too.
    Of course you would applaud these events because they were being RACIST. These people stuck to their life-long FAITH and would not kow tow to the demands of homosexuals.

    In English schools your campaign group wanted young children not only to be taught that homosexuality is normal, but actually to PROMOTE IT! If you don’t believe me do some research!

    Such is the way of the world today, and I fear it is a sadder place because of it. People of your gender seem to think they can run rough shod over principals and life-long held beliefs that have been around for centuries. But you are pushing it too far and it will come back and bite you in the derriere.

    You have the freedoms you wanted, but now you are forcing your devience on people who have strong beliefs and cannot possibly accept what you want. But they are the losers because you people continue your campaign for MORE than the EQUALITY which you have now.
    And before you blast off at me again, I am not in any way saying that YOU are doing this, just your bretheren.

  32. to be honest i really could not be bothered to read all the above. I just want to say that whats matters is LOVE, one person for another, parents for children.For sure what some people call a “normal” family, male and female with children, is not always the best set up for kids. The only thing that is important is that the parents love each other and the children. “Love is always patient and kind. It is never jealous. Love is never boastful or conceited. It is never rude or selfish. It does not take offense and is not resentful. Love takes no pleasure in other people’s sins, but delights in the truth. It is always ready to excuse, to trust, to hope, and to endure whatever comes.”

  33. “You may have been lucky in your experiences…”
    I grew up with heterosexual parents! In fact, they were also homophobic! (So it served them right to get a lesbian daughter, but fortunately they grew up and faced the facts: that equality is equality, if they’ve got it, and you’ve got it, I want it too, because I deserve it).
    We are not second-class citizens. We have a RIGHT to equality. It is enshrined in law. It is morally correct.
    As for opinion polls: how about the Irish referendum which was open to anyone in the country who was old enough to vote? Researchers know what they’re doing. They know whether they need to target a given segment, or a cross section, whether their sampling should be stratified, random…
    And in my experience and those of other homosexual people I’ve known, acceptance is the norm.
    We do not have total equality, because we STILL have hate campaigners like you telling us to go underground. If straight people can do it or have it, we want to have it. Why shouldn’t we? What’s so wonderful about straight people that they think they’re entitled to higher privileges than millions of homosexual people?
    Luckily, not many do.
    You’re still hiding behind ‘freedom of speech’ and ‘that’s my opinion’. Your opinion is every bit as offensive as if you had said ‘women belong in the kitchen’ or ‘black people should be made to travel on the back of the bus’. It is not a personal attack at me – it’s a personal attack on six million Brits and 4.6 million Spaniards. Commenting and debating and expressing your personal likes and dislikes are okay as long as they don’t involve blatant and ILLEGAL discrimination, as long as they’re not sexist, racist, homophobic or otherwise repulsive to mainstream society. If I went round telling people they were fat, ugly and stupid, and adding, this is just my opinion and I’m entitled to it, I would have to expect some backlash.
    If your opinion is downright disrespectful and rude, you keep it to yourself, freedom of speech or not. Anyone with a decent upbringing and a certain amount of class and social skills should know that.

  34. Promoting’ homosexuality is impossible. You either ARE homosexual, or you’re not. It’s that simple. In the same way as your own attempting to ‘promote’ heterosexuality is impossible: if you’re not heterosexual, nobody can change that. If a straight person WANTED to be gay, they couldn’t be. If a gay person WANTED to be straight, they couldn’t be.
    The whole idea of opening it up in schools is to give homosexuality the ‘normality’ it is and deserves. And also to show those children battling with their own homosexuality alone that they CAN get help and do NOT need to hide who they are, and that it is NOT their fault if they’re bullied and they MUST report it. Do you agree with homophobic bullying in schools, or do you think adults in education have a duty to stamp it out?
    As for these people you mentioned who ‘refused to bake a cake for homosexuals’ or ‘refused to let an unmarried couple sleep in the same room’, that’s just prejudice, purely and simply. Would you refuse to bake a cake for black people? Remember how in the ’70s it was okay to advertise a room to rent as ‘no dogs, no blacks, no Irish’??? Hatred, discrimination, disrespect and ignorance of our fellow others is what causes war and crime.
    And too many so-called ‘Christians’ use their religion as free licence to allow them to be offensive, isolate those who are slightly different from them, and demonise them for who they are.
    If this is what they do, they’re not Christians. A true Christian loves, accepts, tolerates, and wants the best for everyone. Did Jesus reject anyone? “The creed and the colour and the name won’t matter, I’ll be there.”
    We are PEOPLE, we are taxpayers, we are NORMAL humans living a NORMAL life, and we do NOT deserve to be treated as pariahs and denied any rights or privileges we would have if, in my case, I chose to have relationships with men, or in Stuart’s case, if he chose to have relationships with women.
    If you or anyone said ‘all old people should be put down’ I would also react with disgust and fury, because that’s cruel, sick and an attack on a whole sector of society. Not liking the president is a personal choice; not supporting Manchester United is a personal choice; nobody can truly be offended by that. But telling millions of people they should ‘stay in the closet’ and slamming governments and councils for supporting them in their quest for EQUAL treatment is just vile, and no better than insulting black people, disabled people or women.
    We pay taxes to these councils and governments, so we’re entitled to their support.
    And the mere fact there are people with dangerous and hatred-inciting people STILL out there, using ‘freedom of speech’ and ‘Christianity’ as an excuse to insult others, shows that we do not yet have that equality and we need to keep fighting for it.
    Have you ever been fired for being heterosexual? Ever been beaten up in the street for being straight? Ever been refused necessary and life-saving routine medical testing because the doctors told you that you didn’t need it as you were heterosexual? (Yes. More lesbians than straight women die from cervical cancer, because until recently, they were told they didn’t need smear tests, and female doctors and nurses would be supported if they raised a conscientious objection and refused to carry them out on a lesbian ‘in case she got off on it’).
    How is this fair? And why should you be sheltered from all this because of whom you fall in love with, and yet a whole 10% of the population shouldn’t be allowed this protection because of whom THEY fall in love with?
    You can’t choose whom to fall in love with. You can’t choose your height, your skin colour, your sex, your age. Your hatred of homosexual and bisexual people is as ludicrous as if you hated people for being six feet tall or hated them for being born in February.
    If people don’t agree with the freedoms we LGBs have, which are the same as those straight people have – or less, in many cases – there’s something seriously wrong with them. Sociopathic, maybe, or just very sheltered. I’m amazed you bothered to move to Spain if you have such intense dislike of anyone different from you.
    In any case, Spain support equality as a society and as a government. We’ve been marrying here for over a decade. If you don’t like it, go live in a country where gays ARE put to death/denied jobs/unable to marry and where your views won’t be offensive to a significant minority.

  35. People of our ‘gender’???? My gender is ‘female’, yours is ‘male’, Stuart’s is ‘male’. My gender is the same as any straight woman.
    I expect you’re picturing me as a cropped-haired tattoo-covered beer-swiller in dungarees. Well, I’m lucky to be blessed with long blonde hair and a very slim figure; I wear nail polish, jewellery, dresses, high heels and skirts (trousers come out when it’s cold), and wouldn’t even step outside to get my mail without putting my makeup on first. I wouldn’t be seen dead in Doc Martens or an Aertex shirt, I hate football and pints of beer, and the type of woman I have relationships with fits the same description as I do. We’re surprisingly normal, boring, ordinary, unremarkable people, you know. Not the weird-looking, weird-acting freaks you probably picture us as.
    I’m very different to my straight female friends because…I have more cats, and I’m a vegetarian.
    Oh, and because I don’t find men attractive. Forgot about that minor detail.

  36. There r people out there being murdered, raped, and children kidnapped. And the list goes on!
    So when ur talking about the freedom to express love
    Sexuality whether hetro or homo is just surely just human nature! we should embrace it. If u don’t like it don’t let it bother u. Shouldn’t affect u at all. I believe everyone has the right to love and be happy.
    Don’t they?

    Grow up and educate urselves.
    Religion has more to answer for in this world than sexuality!!!
    Oh and I’m a heterosexual female, married With children.

  37. Kally, now you are getting ridiculous! All these things you have written here are nonsense and do NOT try to imply that I have said any of this rubbish because I have not!
    I made a simple statement but you have blown it all out of proportion with your ranting and I for one have had enough.
    I wish you well.

  38. Totally, Bunton!!!!!!!!! Misinterpretation of religion by a few fanatics is what causes so much grief in this world.
    You are SO right, and thank goodness you’re in the majority. Thank you to you and all the others who accept people like me as normal humans with the right to love and be happy….if only more of them did!

  39. Absolutely, Mary. That’s exactly the point I and several others have been trying to get across – love is natural and can never be a sin.
    Thank you for understanding!!!!!

  40. Please stop trying to justify yourself with ‘I made a simple statement’. You sound like a five-year-old saying, “it wasn’t me, I didn’t do it,” when you were seen in the act of it. Your ‘statement’ was offensive, repulsive and discriminatory against a community which spans tens of millions in Europe alone, billions worldwide, and a community which has never done you any harm and none of whom you’ve even met.
    I KNOW you didn’t say black people should ‘go home’ or women should ‘stay in the kitchen and out of the workplace’, etc. But your own ‘simple statement’ was EXACTLY of the same ilk. You are absolutely no better (and certainly no more Christian) than anyone who says these vile things. Don’t try to shelter or justify yourself: saying homosexual people should not be allowed equality is exactly the same and every bit as degrading, illegal and unacceptable as saying black or female members of society should not be allowed equality. I don’t think you’re quite intelligent to understand this, but homophobia is not acceptable, just as racism isn’t, just as sexism isn’t. It is equally as sick and dangerous.
    If you want to be a narrow-minded bigot, do so, but in the privacy of your own home, and please do not subject others to your offensive ‘simple statements’.
    All that YOU have written about gay people is ‘nonsense’, because you know nothing about it, or about us, have no experience of what we have had to battle with, and no vicarious experience either because you clearly have no close friends who are gay.
    And don’t insult Christian homosexuals by using your radical interpretation of religion to justify why you have no respect for them. You are not a Christian; you’re just someone who’s read bits of the bible and misunderstood them. A true Christian is someone with the views of Mary or Bunton above, that love can never be a sin if it’s mutual, and everyone deserves love and happiness.
    Next time you decide to make a ‘simple statement’ which involves discrimination, disrespect and is potentially extremely rude and offensive to others, ask yourself: Is it necessary (no, absolutely not). Is it true? (likewise. Whether or not you consider us ‘deviants’, we can’t help the fact we were born and we exist). Is it kind? (that should be a no-brainer).
    You have no excuse for insulting others who have done nothing to harm you.
    And my ranting at you, BTW, is freedom of speech, surely….? After all, we can all say anything we like to anyone, can’t we, no matter how hurtful and unpleasant, because we’re allowed freedom of speech.
    Grow up, get to know some people outside your comfort zone, learn some compassion, get some social education, or keep quiet.
    What a shame closed minds don’t come with closed mouths.

  41. “After all, we can all say anything we like to anyone, can’t we, no matter how hurtful and unpleasant, because we’re allowed freedom of speech.”
    The days are not yet here when we have to keep our mouths shut. Everyone STILL has the right to express their opinion on any subject. So lets leave it at that!!!!


  42. Kally, as a final word I guess the reds and greens indicate that your views are in the minority despite what you have said.
    Keep smiling!

  43. No, the reds and greens in your favour (didn’t know this was a competition) show there are still narrow-minded bigots out there and indicate that in terms of equality, we still have work to do, which has not yet rendered Gay Pride redundant. I look forward to the day it’s not longer necessary.
    Thank goodness people with your disrespectful views and poor social skills are a dwindling minority.

  44. Anyone who feels justified in saying hurtful, rude and unpleasant things to anyone because they ‘have the right to freedom of speech’ needs serious help.
    Your right to freedom of speech ends where it becomes offensive, and exactly at the point where it encroaches on others’ rights to freedom from attack and insults.
    If you seriously believe you can be as rude and disrespectful as you want to anyone and dress it up as your ‘right to an opinion’, there is something seriously wrong with you which probably has a psychiatric label for it. Narcissistic Personality Disorder or possibly even Psychopathic Personality Disorder spring to mind.
    Get help before you isolate yourself even more and offend too many more people. There’s no place in today’s society for hurtful insults or bigotry.

  45. Oh, but he believes in imaginary polls and surveys in which ‘everyone aged over 35 or 40’ (hey, that’s me…) thinks gay people are sinners. Just doesn’t believe in the official ones that say over 70% of the population DOES support us and believe that everyone deserves love, happiness and the right to lead their own lives as best suits them as long as they don’t harm anyone.
    Probably he’s got a gang of his mates to like and unlike comments to show he’s ‘the clear winner’. (Either that or, worryingly, there are more bigots out there than we thought, even in the 21st century). Who do you think will present his medal? Donald “I only support traditional marriage, that’s why I’ve traditionally married three times” Trump?
    All the greens and reds prove are that his argument that we don’t need to keep fighting for equal treatment because we’ve already got it is total fallacy: Until people stop having his views (let alone feeling they can air them publicly) we don’t have equality. Until we stop getting disparaging comments nobody else would get if they were heterosexual, we still have to fight to be considered ‘normal’.
    Sounds like the US in 1967 when the majority were against the new law that made mixed-race marriage legal. “I’m all for civil liberties, but negroes marrying whites? That’s going a bit too far.”
    I’m glad Roy’s educated me on freedom of speech and the right to an opinion, though. I always thought that both of these were limited by the moral duty to respect and be kind to others, but I’ve just discovered I can now go around slagging off anyone I please and being as rude and offensive to them as I want and, if they object, it’s THEM in the wrong because I’m only expressing my ‘personal views’ in accordance with my ‘freedom of speech’. Seems I’ve been doing it wrong all along, following boring social codes which say we’re supposed to be nice to people and not hurt their feelings. We all have a right to insult anyone we want, Roy says, so let’s have some fun and start telling people who are @$$h0l€$ what we really think of them!
    (Actually…I don’t think I’ll bother. I’ll leave it to people who genuinely don’t give a stuff about others’ feelings. Oddly enough, being kind to people and valuing them as fellow humans has generally earned me more friends, so maybe I’ll stick with that).

  46. Andy, you seem to struggle with grasping the points being raised here. Far be from me to mock someone who it seems would have, in the less enlightened times beloved of folks like Roy (and maybe yourself), been considered a little ‘slow’ but you really ought to try if you are thinking of joining in this thread. Have a go at reading Kally’s extremely well expressed points slowly and you’ll may even learn something about how other people live away from your own small circle of experience. Not everyone has to conform to your way of thinking or acting to be considered normal. I consider myself perfectly normal, so do my family and dozens of friends – even the law does.

    Have a look around. It’s not that frightening a place, the real world, unless you are young and constantly bombarded with insults, and maybe even physical assaults, by those whose definition of ‘normal’ is so constrained by their narrow view of life that to be outside of it means you are thereby considered abnormal. Unfortunately people such as you make it frightening for a significant number of youngsters to the extent that some even take their own life. A terrible thing to have on one’s conscience I would have thought – or does it not affect yours?

    I don’t have to ‘think on my sins’ as you ask. I don’t have any. I am far from perfect but I consider myself to be a good person who tries always to do his best – some of the time I fail, but I try. Sin is not a concept I understand or accept. I aim to hurt nobody – maybe that’s an aim you could consider adopting.

  47. I think it odd that any straight person would knowingly marry a gay person, or that any gay person would marry the opposite sex if they knew they were, in fact, gay.
    Often in the past, when people didn’t truly believe they could be homosexual, because the backlash from society and the fact they had it drummed into them that gay people were sick and sinners and all that tired old guff which nobody believes any more, they probably wouldn’t have realised they were indeed one of those ‘deviants’ and just felt there was ‘something missing’ in their heterosexual marriage. Luckily now people realise being gay is COMPLETELY normal, nobody has to have those doubts.
    I cannot imagine a person who knows they are gay marrying a heterosexual person of the opposite sex. Why would they? That’s the whole point of being gay, that you don’t WANT to marry someone of the opposite sex. And in any case, mixed-sex marriage has been legal for centuries so I fail to see how approving same-sex marriage could cause this unlikely scenario.
    And if a heterosexual person marries someone who’s gay and is the SAME sex…well, why would they do that???
    Marriage is a two-way set of vows and, luckily, in the west, both parties have to consent to it in order for it to happen.
    I think you’re getting confused…I’m not entirely sure I know where you’re coming from.

  48. If you honestly, genuinely believe your ‘right to freedom of speech’ and your ‘right to voice your opinion’ gives you free licence to say hurtful and unpleasant things to people, and be rude to them publicly, you seriously need some help.
    Your right to ‘freedom of speech’ and ‘expressing your opinion’ ends exactly where it becomes offensive to others. Your rights end exactly where they infringe on those of others. You went a long way beyond that basic notion of civil conduct, good manners and social behaviour in your very first comment.
    “I can insult you and make vile, repulsive remarks to you and call you whatever I like, because I’ve a right to my opinion and to freedom of speech.” Is this really what you believe? Then either, as I suspected from the outset, you are not intelligent enough to interpret basic English and have misunderstood the entire concept of ‘freedom of expression’, or you suffer from a recognised behavioural disorder, such as narcissism or sociopathy.
    I hope it’s just lack of intelligence, because if you really consider yourself entitled to make unacceptable and repulsive comments to others simply because it’s all covered by ‘free speech’, then you really must be a selfish and objectionable person and I doubt you have any friends.

  49. I don’t quite get what you’re saying, Andy. A gay person would only marry someone of the same sex, and if that person were heterosexual, they wouldn’t go through with the wedding. If a gay person married the opposite sex (and I can’t imagine why they would), this is ‘mixed-sex marriage’, or what you erroneously term ‘normal’, and has been legal since prehistoric times. So I can’t see how legalising same-sex marriage is going to encourage gay people to marry opposite-sex heterosexuals!!!!!!!!
    Another issue altogether is if someone genuinely doesn’t know or hasn’t accepted they’re gay and believes, particularly in light of the hatred and bigotry a minority of people STILL subject homosexuals to (people like Roy Peters), and discovers it or accepts it later. Well, the ‘cure’ for that is a society where people feel they CAN be gay without being considered ‘odd’, ‘dangerous’, a ‘sinner’ or all the other ludicrous accusations we get. And where they CAN marry someone of the ‘right’ gender, legally. Once homosexuality and bisexuality is considered and respected as every bit as normal and everyday as heterosexuality, these issues simply won’t arise.
    If you’re against gay marriage, how can ‘gays marry gays’??? Isn’t that the whole point of equal marriage and the protection of everyone’s rights, irrespective of sex or sexuality, becoming enshrined in law?!
    I’m not really sure what your argument is, to be honest.

  50. You’ve clearly missed the irony in my final comment, Roy…I wonder why that doesn’t surprise me?!
    Do you REALLY believe that ‘freedom of speech’ and ‘the right to express an opinion on any subject’ makes it acceptable to insult, humiliate, attack, offend and make rude and disrespectful comments to anyone you want? Do you really believe you can treat other humans as you wish, because you’re justified in doing so through ‘freedom of speech’ and ‘right to opinion’????
    If so, you need to learn some social skills, and fast.
    Your right to an ‘opinion’ and ‘freedom of expression’ ends at exactly the point where it becomes offensive and dangerous to others. It ends at exactly the point where it encroaches on the rights of other people.
    You already overstepped that red line by a very wide margin with your first comment on this thread.
    Learn to treat your fellow humans with respect, and you may become a much nicer person as a result.

  51. Your memory is letting you down again Roy. I could almost feel sorry for you. It was YOU that said you were winning the red and greens so what’s that all about then if it’s not – in your eyes at least – a poll ? Get it?

  52. Kally, like it or not I was brought up to think of being gay as not being normal and so for me… it is not normal to be gay, I see myself as normal because I am hetrosexual.

    One of the things that gets up my nose is when people come across as being hard done by and I find in most cases it is because those people generally are just digging holes for themselves, if you are gay then you are gay but get out of peoples faces with it, sometimes I wonder if it is many gay people who actually have an issue with being gay as they rant on about their rights this and their rights that, most people like me ‘a normal person’ just get on with their lives and generally doesn’t comment about others… but then sometimes gays just seem to get up normal people noses at times, maybe if you found something productive to put your energy into it might make you feel more positive and productive.

  53. Mike, funnily enough, I wasn’t ‘brought up gay’ and in fact, was also ‘brought up’ to believe gay was ‘not normal’. Given that ‘gay’ or ‘straight’ or ‘bi’ is something you’re literally born with, being treated as ‘abnormal’ for something as integral to you and as impossible to change as your height or shoe size causes extreme trauma in young life. It can make school days hell. Some young people attempt suicide – and succeed. Recently, a 15-year-old boy in Brighton killed himself because he was ostracised by family, ‘friends’ and society for being gay.
    We didn’t ask to be considered ‘different’; heterosexuals in society decided that for us by treating us as pariahs. Even in the 1990s, you could lose a job if anyone found out. You could lose friends, your family would turn their back on you and tell everyone you were ‘going off the rails’ just because (in my case) I didn’t want a boyfriend and preferred girls.
    We don’t want ‘gay rights’, we want EQUAL rights. In most cases we have them, but in many cases we do not. It’s only been a year since same-sex couples in the UK, for example, have been able to marry. How many have been refused entry to their loved ones’ hospital wards because they were not ‘next of kin’, or had to pay massive inheritance tax to keep their own marital homes? How many in Spain have been (and still are) denied a widows’ or widowers’ pension? Straight women can have babies whenever they want; gay women, obviously, cannot, therefore the only safe way (in terms of health – and legal issues) is insemination, a quick and easy process which costs the health service next to nothing, a health service all women fund. But in Spain, only heterosexual married couples are entitled to any fertility treatment, which means if I wanted to have a child, it would cost me thousands.
    Also, the gay community has worked hard to be recogisned as normal, everyday people (believe me, the only thing ‘abnormal’ about me is the number of cats I own) and for bullying in schools to be stamped out, to stop the next generation of homophobes like Roy (and probably you) making life a misery for us just because we don’t follow your narrow pattern of ‘acceptably normal’. In my day, 20 years or so ago, teachers were expected to openly condemn homosexuality, or they’d be accused of ‘promoting it’ (you can’t promote homosexuality, because you either are it or you’re not, and it’s impossible to persuade anyone to be straight). As a result, many gay children felt alone and scared.
    Elsewhere in the world, you can be arrested, tortured or even killed for being gay – and however hard you try to go underground, the truth will out. Just imagine risking being beaten and raped and possibly killed by the police just because of the relationship you have with your partner.
    Our rights are every bit as important as your rights; we’re all taxpayers and voters. And our rights are the SAME as your rights, so if we’re short of any, we want that corrected.
    We also need to keep up our work educating some closed-minded factions of society who would continue to demonise us and treat us as weird and repulsive beings when, really, we just want to fall in love and be happy ever after.
    The reason we DON’T have full equality is because of the attitudes of a small minority of society, mostly heterosexual men of a certain age.
    As for ‘shoving it in other people’s faces’, don’t you think heterosexuals do that quite a lot? Where can you go without seeing heterosexuality thrust at you? Every film, every advert, every snogging couple on the street. If there were just one advert on TV, just one mainstream film without an 18 certificate, just one snogging couple in the street which showed same-sex love instead of mixed-sex love, we’d have outcry from (fortunately, a minority of) society. Ireland actually held a referendum on whether couples the voters had never met were able to seal their relationships legally. Can you imagine a referendum on whether or not YOU should be allowed to marry your wife? And most of the voters were gay? Can you imagine your own disbelief that your OWN, private marriage should be considered the public’s business and that a vote was even needed?
    Marriage between two consenting adults who love each other should be legal, and that’s it. End of.

  54. quote>
    The reason we DON’T have full equality is because of the attitudes of a small minority of society, mostly heterosexual men of a certain age.
    As for ‘shoving it in other people’s faces’ and don’t you think heterosexuals do that quite a lot? Where can you go without seeing heterosexuality thrust at you? Every film, every advert, every snogging couple on the street. If there were just one advert on TV, just one mainstream film without an 18 certificate, just one snogging couple in the street which showed same-sex love instead of mixed-sex love, we’d have outcry from (fortunately, a minority of) society.

    Firstly you say you do not have full equality because ‘it is because of a small minority of men’ then you say everywhere you turn you see hetrosexual pushed in your face! I feel it is you that does not understand and that maybe it is you that has the problem! All the TV, films and adverts are not all made by ‘a small majority of men’, these are made by many men and women from agencies and the reason they do this is because in todays society that is what is still considered as normal, so the reason you see this is because it is considered normal behaviour by the majority of people both male and female.

    Can you imagine a referendum on whether or not YOU should be allowed to marry your wife? And most of the voters were gay? Can you imagine your own disbelief that your OWN, private marriage should be considered the public’s business and that a vote was even needed? end>

    But is’s not, my sexuality * is * considered normal, if I did something that others considered not normal then * yes, I could imagine there being an issue *.
    As I say, I think it is you that needs to deal with this and stop thinking it is ok to shove things in peoples faces who do not agree with them and just expecting they should accept it… it doesn’t work like that and it never will, even if the whole world was gay it still wouldn’t work. Put your energies into something that gives you some self esteem and makes you feel better in yourself, if you had did you wouldn’t worry about what you where. I have no more to say about this, it is you that needs to get on with your life as my won’t change 😉

  55. Sorry and all that, Mike, but homosexuality IS normal, it DOES deserve equal treatment, it IS generally accepted by society, discrimination against us is enshrined in law, we were born this way, we cannot help it, we are equal taxpayers, voters and law-abiding citizens, and we deserve equal treatment and to be allowed to live our lives free from tags such as ‘abnormal’, which only serve to lower the self-esteem of 4.6 million Spaniards, six million Brits and billions more worldwide – and, more dangerously, children and teenagers.
    It is attitudes such as yours, claiming we’re ‘not normal’, that has been responsible for very young people suffering depression, eating disorders, attempted suicide and, until recently, losing jobs and being ostracised by society and the law. The fact this is changing can only be positive, but given that there are still people like you with rather dangerous, radical views, the journey is not over yet.
    Remember the news programme about the ‘house of shame’ which was providing contraception to ‘unmarried women over 16’? *horrors*. That was only 45-50 years ago. Remember Apartheid? That was still happening less than 25 years ago. Remember women being denied promotions if they got married, not being allowed to have a bank account in their own names and being considered ‘selfish’ if they chose not to have children? That was barely 40 years ago. Remember single mothers being considered ‘sluts’? That was barely 25 years ago. As recently as WWII, domestic violence against women and children, who were expected to ‘serve’ the men of the household, was the accepted norm. More recently still, spousal rape was not considered a crime, a man beating his wife was ‘just a domestic issue, the law can’t get involved’, and even in my lifetime and even in my WORKING lifetime, women were expected to put up with sexual harrassment and told, “you should be flattered.”
    Society is, luckily, becoming less judgmental, less narrow-minded, and accepting that their own very limited views of ‘normality’. All those unacceptable ‘norms’ of yesteryear are now considered worthy of outrage. Sexism (and homophobia IS sexism) and racism are now outlawed. Homophobia is outlawed. Divorce is a legal right (only 33 years ago, it wasn’t legal in Spain) and the world is waking up. About time too.
    For as long as you consider it’s okay to shove your heterosexuality in my face, we consider we have a right to ‘shove our homosexuality in your face’ – read: pushing for equality.
    Actually, just by talking about it, about ourselves, by naming the genders of our partners, we’re accused of ‘shoving it in people’s faces’. Straight people can refer to their husbands or wives and make it plain they’re not interested in the same sex, without being considered as ‘shoving their heterosexuality in people’s faces’. We do the same, and that’s what we’re accused of.
    And that’s why we STILL don’t have equality, because a minority of (mainly heterosexual male) society STILL treats us as ‘abnormal’.
    It’s called falling in love. It’s called consenting relationships. It’s called equal treatment. Nothing abnormal about that.
    You have no idea what it’s like to grow up thinking you’re a sick pervert and not able to talk to ANYONE about it. You have no idea of what it’s like to have to plough all your energies into hiding a crucial part of yourself to avoid being treated as a pariah, or getting fired. You don’t, actually, have the first clue what you’re talking about; all this has no connection to your own, sheltered little life where you’re Mr Privileged because of your virtuous heterosexuality.
    I’m normal. My friends and family and most people I meet agree I’m normal. My 90-year-old Grandma loves me and my lesbian cousin to bits, and went to my cousin’s wedding with all the pride in the world.
    Bigotry and prejudice is what is NOT normal, and I think you need to take a tour of the outside world, get to know more people, and learn some social skills.
    I’ve ignored the bit where you tell me to ‘do something productive and get some self-esteem’, because you know nothing about how productive or otherwise my life is, neither is it any of your business – but I can bet my bottom I achieve more in a day than you do in the average year, but with a fraction of the effort.

  56. Just read what you have said, your problem is with you… not me and everyone else! Being gay might be normal to you but it certainly is not to me and most of the people of my age group! It doesn’t matter what you, the pope, the Irish people, the police, the government try to make me think it will not change what I do think! Can’t you understand that you cannot force your beliefs on other people just because you feel hard done by, you are trying to do to others what you are complaining they are doing to you.
    BTW, I doubt you achieve anywhere near what I do in a day but that is not my problem either, if you did achieve more than me that is not an issue with me either! I just get on with my life and don’t rant and rave in peoples faces about it. I work very long days and pay what I consider to be far too much in tax but try to save as much as I can but I don’t rant and rave about the number of people who take every penny they can in welfare while they sit on heir butts then get everything paid for by the government because they didn’t bother their backside working and trying to save while I will get my savings and home taken from me to pay for any government help I need in later life, those are facts, things I would love to be different but the fact our government thinks that is OK and normal doesn’t mean it is but I have to just get on with my life and good luck in yours.

  57. Oh, well said Mike. I couldn’t have put it better myself!
    Just get on with your life Kally and stop ranting about your ‘condition’.
    (Oh Dear! I think that is going to set her off again folks!!!)

  58. Well said Mike!
    Kally, if you people tried just getting on with your lives instead of always wanting to be the centre of attention you would find life much easier.

  59. Stuart I almost feel sorry for you. This is not a poll because people are NOT being ASKED if they approve of homosexuality, they are just giving their opinion on the comments made about the subject.
    These days you people seem to think you are God’s gift to humanity, but not everyone agrees with you so you sound off with rants like Kally.
    If more of you learnt to just GET ON WITH LIFE in a QUIET way and stop making constant demands there might not be so much antagonism.

  60. No, my problem is with that (luckily) dying breed…homophobes. You’re just bigots, narrow-minded and totally clueless, and need to see a bit of the outside world before you judge other people trying to live their lives.
    And the mere fact this so-called ‘debate’ has started on this thread shows we HAVEN’T got the equality we’re entitled to, because we’re still insulted and put up with offensive comments. No heterosexual person gets hit with repulsive comments and epithets purely because they’re heterosexual – by definition, no homosexual or bisexual person should, either.
    Until this happens, we are certainly NOT equal and STILL have a long way to go.
    You need to get out more.

  61. PS. What age-group are you – pre-Ancient Rome????? Because homosexuality has been there as long as heterosexuality has, and gay people are of all ages. One guy I know pretty well turns 80 this year. He’s not the exception, either.

  62. It is not ‘condition’, any more than heterosexuality is.
    I’m not ranting about my own homosexuality, I’m ‘ranting’, as you put it, about narrow-minded bigots who feel they can insult a whole sector of society and call it ‘their right to an opinion’, and who for some reason believe they are entitled to special privileges because of being heterosexual. You need to get off your pedestal and move out of your narrow comfort zone.
    Why don’t you move to a country where we’re NOT considered equal at law with the right to equal treatment? And if you’re so against anyone who doesn’t conform to your narrow definition of ‘normal’, why did you bother to move to such a cosmopolitan country? (I bet you’re one of those tiresome Brits who moans that nobody here speaks English).

  63. Here you go again, hiding behind your ‘right to give an opinion’ to justify your disrespectful, offensive comments.
    We ‘demand’ equal treatment to heterosexual people. We do not see why straight people should get higher privileges than us – do you, perchance, pay more in taxes? Give more to charity? Do more for your country? Then why, just because you’re heterosexual, do you think you’re entitled to more than us?

  64. It’s not homosexual people who make us ‘centre of attention’, it’s heterosexual bigots who single us out as something unsavoury.
    So, if a person is homosexual, which in your view automatically makes them a sinner and abnormal, what do you suggest they do about it? Jump off a bridge? Remain celibate and single and never have relationships, so as not to offend total strangers they’ll never meet? Put up with being treated as second-class citizens? Meekly take the insults, discrimination and disrespectful comments of people like you, and accept it as their pennance for being born the way they are?
    Get into the real world and learn some social etiquette.

  65. There you go again, just another gay insulting people because they have nothing better to do and cannot face up to the fact that the world cannot face to stand in front of you with open arms every time you cry ‘hard done by and you don’t understand’, do you really think life is that simple? You won’t get people on your side by flinging insults because I can asure you life doesn’t work like that. The more you go on the less I think of you and what you believe in so well done Kally, just keep digging 😉

  66. Just keep insulting, it only reflects your personality more and lets us all really know the type of person you are, maybe you will read your posts and start to understand why most normal people just have no time for your people like you.
    People have been stealing from the start of mankind and I am sure they thought it was normal, here in Spain it appears most people steal even up to the politicians and I can asure you they all think they that it is normal but it isn’t and that doesn’t make it normal either 😉

  67. Kally, From reading all of what you have written here I can honestly say that NO-ONE has been more insulting and vicious than yourself.

  68. You know nothing about my personality – but I’m pretty certain I can see a lot about yours in a few comments. Bigoted, narrow-minded and anti-social, for a start.
    Stealing will never be accepted by society because doing so involves infringing on the rights of the person or organisation you are stealing from.
    Exactly how does a person being gay (which is like being left-handed: you’re born that way and can’t help it) and having the same rights as you heterosexual special snowflakes infringe anyone else’s rights?

  69. Your very first comment, Roy, was an insult of stratospheric proportions which should never, ever have made the public domain.
    And if you expect me to meekly accept it without reacting – or anyone else to whom it was directed – you’re even more ignorant than I thought.
    Please stop shoving your homophobia in mine and everyone else’s faces. It’s not pretty. Homophobes are more of a minority than homosexuals, and far less socially-acceptable.

  70. I couldn’t care less what you think of me, Mike. You’re the epitome of what I hate in a male: whilst no doubt you think it’s fine to impose your heterosexuality on women who are not interested in you and for other men to do likewise, and insult an entire community which has been around for generations before you were born, you continue to talk from a standpoint of total ignorance. You know nothing about what it is to be gay or to grow up being treated as a pariah when you’re still in primary school. And the reason this happens is because of people like you who can’t keep your bigoted, offensive ‘opinions’ to yourself.
    Your homophobic comments in the beginning were unacceptable insults, and I don’t see why I or anyone should stay silent in the face of prejudice.
    I suppose the same goes for racism, does it? Insult a black person and don’t expect them to retaliate?
    If you can’t take it, don’t dish it out. Go and learn a bit about the outside world – it really isn’t such a scary place when you get there.
    Not unless you’re a gay schoolchild faced with bigotry from adults who should know better.

  71. It’s funny but every time they have a lesbian on TV to give her opinions it generally leads to the same…. they hate men! lol. Fine, but as I said before, you are where your problem is, it is not me or anyone else 😉

  72. This is not a debate Kally, this appears to me as a mud slinging match by a very angry female who has some issues she cannot get a grasp on, I am not qualified to take that decision but it is what I feel from what you have been writing here. If you are not happy with yourself or others you should go and talk to someone to see if you can get to the bottom of your issues, maybe then you will understand that you could be much happier and be able to get on with your life in a much more satisfying, relaxed and easier going manner you need to get rid of that sack of hate that is obviously pulling you down. Good luck

  73. Kally, once again you totally miss the point!
    When I said get on with your life quietly It should be clear to you that your ranting on this page is not doing your cause any good, hence all the reds you get!
    People do not want to be CONSTANTLY reminded that people like you exist, and the more you shout about it the more people dislike you.
    Just get on with your life and ignore all the comments you get on these pages. That is what I would do in your situation, and I am sure that if I did I would not get all the flak you are getting at the moment.
    That also goes for the rest of your kind, for you are not doing yourselves any favours with your flag waving, disgusting parades and demonstrations.
    People like you seem to think you can be accepted only if you constantly remind people that you exist. Sorry – WRONG APPROACH!

  74. My problem is with bigots who still live in the stone age. Not entirely coincidence they’re mainly men. And if you’re representative of the male of the species, it’s hardly surprising lesbians do hate them. The way heterosexual men behave in public and towards ladies is just deplorable and primitive, and no, I don’t like it, and actually, neither do straight women.

  75. Your first comment was an insult on a totally unacceptable level and no better than racism or sexism. In fact, homophobia IS sexism. If you expect ANY gay person to stay silent in light of such offensiveness, you have an inflated sense of your own importance.
    Quit now before you make yourself look even more unpleasant.

  76. It’s you who needs help, Mike, you and other bigots out there. Homophobia has no place in modern society, it’s offensive, it’s wrong, it’s not accepted. By all means, be narrow-minded and prejudiced if you wish, but keep it private – we live in a society where equality is paramount and comments that slate or brand as abnormal an entire faction of the community are considered distasteful.
    All I have ‘issues’ with are bigots – that includes racists, homophobes and sexist people. Once those vile specimens crawl back under their stones I’ll have plenty to be happy about.

  77. Roy Peters, there are many spectacles I find personally distatseful. There are some that I find downright revolting, and a few that turn my stomach. You know what? I DON’T LOOK AT THEM. If you don’t want to see men pulling down their shorts, your ability to turn your head away or shut your eyes gives you the ultimate power of veto over what you see. And lines like “they flaunt it before everyone, even children” are frankly absurd. Who is this ‘they’? Your sweeping generalisations do you no favours, frankly.

  78. I see, so the solution is for all of us gay people to keep ourselves hidden from the world and pointedly not mention it to anyone so as not to offend? In the meantime, heterosexuals can continue in the public eye and can flaunt their heterosexuality as they wish? Where do you get that heterosexual people deserve higher privileges than gay people? And why should they have?
    Homophobes are in the minority, far more so than homosexuals. People do not want to be CONSTANTLY reminded that homophobes like you exist, and the more you continue to shove your prejudices down others’ throats, the more you’ll be thoroughly disliked.
    You homophobes are doing yourselves no favours with your public distasteful comments and disgusting ‘opinions’ which should be kept in private.
    Unfortunately, it’s bigots like you who make Gay Pride demonstrations continue to be necessary, even in the 21st century.
    A couple of years ago, a 15-year-old boy from Sussex killed himself because he was gay and was subjected to comments like yours, dressed up as your ‘right to an opinion’. People like you drove this child to the edge.
    A vicar’s son hanged himself 15 years ago in my part of the UK because he felt ‘too filthy to live’ thanks to comments exactly like yours and Mike’s about how he was ‘disgusting’ and ‘abnormal’ and should just withdraw himself from society and not ‘shove his presence in people’s faces’. Homophobia drove this man to take his own life.
    There are many other, similar cases throughout history, where homophobia has driven people to these extremes, or at least to depression serious enough it was a very high risk. Many of these people were children or teenagers. Others were sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, friends.
    Homophobia (like yours and Mike’s) pushed them to that. Homophobes have blood on their hands. These people should still be alive today.
    Homophobia, even outside of countries where it can mean torture or murder, is dangerous (and in the west, it’s illegal). Homophobics have cost lives, deprived people of their health and happiness. Homophobics, like you and Mike.
    Can you live with that on your conscience? I couldn’t.

  79. Kally, enjoy your time while you can, because when the Muslims take over Europe you will really find out what discrimination is!!!!!
    (I’ll bet that is going to rattle your cage!!!!!!!)

  80. So you ARE racist then?????
    Muslims will never ‘take over Europe’, that’s just scaremongering. And even if they do, Islam is a peaceful religion where you’re encouraged to do good things, be kind and give to the poor (2.5% of your income every month) since you won’t get into heaven if not.
    Don’t make the mistake of thinking these evil terrorists are ‘Muslims’. The Q’ran outlaws murder and suicide, for a start, and most Muslims I’ve met are outraged about them. Seriously, I’ve never heard anyone swear so colourfully and so bitterly as our tour guide in Egypt on the very day they bombed Cairo.

  81. “Islam is a peaceful religion” I guess you have never read the Qu’ran otherwise you would not be so naive. Continue to believe the propaganda put out by Muslims if you wish, but homosexuality is banned by the Qu’ran in all its forms so I guess you will have a big shock coming!!!
    And for the tenth time, I am not a racist in any shape or form, just stating a fact, so stop trying to make out that I am..

  82. Yes, I knew about homosexuality being allegedly banned by the Q’ran, or at least, that this is the way more radical readings of it interpret the wording – that’s why so many Muslim homosexuals are forced to seek asylum in the west because of the very real risk of persecution and violence. Homophobia is rife in the Middle East and Africa and ‘corrective rape’ of lesbians is common. In Uganda, it’s a criminal offence NOT to report someone you suspect may be homosexual; and anyone who IS found out to be homosexual gets the death penalty. I’ve unwittingly been to countries on holiday, with my fiancée, where we could have been put in jail just for being in the country as we were breaking the law just by being homosexual – as in, just for existing. Not for ‘practising homosexuality’, but purely for ‘being homosexual’. Yes, I was naïve there, and so was she, because as we literally never remember we’re ‘different from the rest of the world’ in the eyes of certain societal subgroups, and never think of ourselves as criminals, it didn’t occur to us to check. God forbid, we could have been raped in prison. Had we been 100 kilometres further south, we could have faced the death penalty, like so many homosexuals in third-world countries.
    See what a happy place homophobia makes the world?
    Homophobia is as bad as racism. So if you’re a homophobe, you’re no better than a racist. The difference is that foreigners living abroad who are the target of racism usually have either family or a fellow expat community for support, so they don’t need to feel quite as ostracised and alone, and their immediate people won’t be prejudiced towards them. The same is not true of homosexuality, where you may be the only one in your immediate family or group of friends, so that prejudice and name-calling is even more damaging.
    Homophobia is as bad as racism, and so if you deplore racism, you should also deplore homophobia. They’re both a form of hatred and prejudice against a group of people who were born slightly different to you in very subtle ways, and whom you don’t know personally, but despise collectively for no rational reasons.
    Like I said, homophobes have blood on their hands – and I don’t just mean in Africa. Think about it.

  83. Suicides are not restricted to homosexual children or even homosexual adults, but homophobia is a MASSIVE cause of suicide in those who ARE homosexual. Bullying in general is also a massive cause of suicide, by which I mean psychological bullying: rejection, name-calling, treating as an outcast, isolating. That’s exactly what homophobes do, and many, MANY homosexuals, especially younger ones, have at least attempted suicide because of homophobia – ie, because of people like you. Homophobic bullying has always been rife in schools and still exists, to a lesser extent, and bullying leads to depression, eating disorders, suicide, health problems in general. Homosexuality per se is not suicide-inducing or depression-causing; homophobia causes that because of the negativity, isolation and prejudice. And to be honest, if just ONE homosexual child – or adult – commits suicide because of homophobia, that’s one life lost too many. That’s one death that could have been avoided, and it’s a death caused by people JUST LIKE YOU.
    Feeling good about yourself?
    I’m not sure what disciplining children has to do with homosexuality, or with depression and suicide, and neither can I really comment on how far or otherwise children are disciplined today because I don’t have children of my own and don’t really have anything to do with kids in general. But my heartfelt conviction has always been that, rather than children having to be taught how to handle a cruel world, the solution long-term lies in teaching children to make the world a better and kinder place, so that the next generation won’t HAVE to handle a cruel world on such a regular basis. And you can’t really be ‘taught’ to handle any form of hardship – that’s down to the individual and his or her emotional pain threshold, and what is, personally, painful to him or her.
    Otherwise, it’s a bit like teaching girls and women not to wear short skirts so as to prevent men from coming onto them, rather than teaching boys and young men that they don’t have the right to come onto women unless they’re in a relationship with them.
    Generally, I think young people are far nicer today than they were in previous generations; even more so than my own generation was. Many new adults I know – such as my baby brother and his friends – are thoughtful and caring in a way my own crowd certainly wasn’t at their age.
    In any case, bringing up children isn’t something I know a fat lot about, but I do know that if you suffer rejection and name-calling and being treated as ‘abnormal’, it has a very damaging effect on a person and ultimately, can lead to depression and thoughts of, or even attempts at, suicide. Given that this is what homosexuals get from homophobes, by definition, homophobes are causing that. Being gay in itself isn’t depressing; being the target of homophobia IS damaging, and even if the ‘damaged’ ones are just a small handful in an entire community, it’s still a small handful too many when it’s a condition that’s caused by others and with no good reason for it.

  84. I considered your statement ” homophobes have blood on their hands” for all of about one second and then discarded it as pure nonsense.
    Don’t equate the laws and beliefs of other nations with those in Europe.
    You people have what you wanted, i.e. cohabitation, marriage and children, so why the hell don’t you just accept that and live your lives as others do instead of parading and constantly pushing for more and more.
    As you said, you have equality under the law so be satisfied and get on with it without all the whinging!!!!
    Your ranting is getting somewhat tiresome!!!!!!

  85. “so the solution is for all of us gay people to keep ourselves hidden from the world” – Rubbish!
    That is NOT what I said and you damn well know it. Stop twisting peoples words to make you look like the victim here.
    Just live your life in a quiet way like we do and stop all the stupid ‘Gay’ parades which I call ‘shoving your lifestyle in peoples faces’. Few decent people want to see men in ‘mankinis’ and scantily clad women cavorting down the street with the message ‘Look At Me I’m GAY’.
    Its way past time when you just joined society as a group and lived your lives as they rest of us do without all the rants in columns such as this. If you are able to do this hardly anyone would notice you.
    But no! You have to shout it from the rooftops and take away people’s livelyhoods with your constant court battles because some devout Christian hotel owner would not let you have a room because you are not married. You have to bring pressure on the education system to actually PROMOTE your way of life with children as young as five or six, as a couple of examples.
    Sorry, but that does not work for me, and I might add, probably many others in the country, and I am talking about the UK here not Spain as you so erroniously put it in another rant.
    Its time you people realized that not everyone is going to accept the way you live, and never will, but if you just accepted that and got on with your lives in a quiet manner you would get a lot less flak.
    Its the old old saying – YOU GET WHAT YOU SOW!

  86. “be narrow-minded and prejudiced if you wish, but keep it private” – I don’t see homosexuals keeping it private when they stage their ‘Gay’ parades!
    Incidentally, I notice that several of my comments have not appeared EWN.

  87. “women raped and killed on the street at night are attacked by HETEROSEXUAL men. Teenage girls who get pregnant are HETEROSEXUAL and the boys who got them pregnant are HETEROSEXUAL”
    Ha! you really made me laugh with that one. Homosexual man do not do these things becase THEY CAN’T. they are ‘Gay’ and don’t like women!!!!! Lesbians can’t get pregnant because they don’t like MEN!
    Keep them coming Kally. I love it!

  88. Not sure if this is someone who hasn’t got more to do than stir a wooden spoon or if there are some loose screws, I can’t work out which Roy 😉

  89. Like I have already said Kally, you have the right to cohabit, marry and bring up children, what more do you want for crying out loud?
    Not everyone has to LIKE you, just as not everyone is a Man United fan or a Conservative. Get on with your life and stop your perpetual moaning about inequality!!!!

  90. We have to fight for visibilty if people like you want to force us into oblivion and CONTINUE to ‘disapprove’ of a whole sector of society for no logical reason. You cannot disapprove of people for the way they’re born; it’s not their fault, they can’t help it. Did you know that there are homosexuals out there who don’t ‘practise’ because they’ve been single for so long, or widowed???? That doesn’t stop them being homosexual. If they slept all day and never left home, they would still be gay. That’s like ‘disapproving’ of someone for being British (they’d have a point, actually, in Benidorm, Salou and Magaluf, the appalling way the Brits behave there. Straight Brits in the main) or ‘disapproving’ of someone because they’re left-handed. That’s ludicrous, and such irrational, collective hatred is YOUR problem, not ours. Why don’t you try treating everyone as an individual human, rather than judging aspects of them they couldn’t change if they wanted to?!
    Men in ‘mankinis’ are usually stag-party drunkards, ie straight. Scantily-clad women (oh…where??? Sounds good to me 😀 ) are normally, drunks in places like Magaluf who don’t know how to behave. All this debauchery you read about, all these drunken antics at fiestas, on Saturday nights after ‘chucking-out’ time, are predominantly protagonised by straight people.
    Children at school need to know about different ways of life, because by the time they get to nine or 10, some might be gay themselves. Many will have gay parents, gay aunts and uncles, gay grandparents, gay parents’ friends. They need to be aware it’s acceptable before they’re old enough to be brainwashed by bigots like you. You cannot ‘promote’ homosexuality, because you either ARE gay or you’re not. Just as you couldn’t choose to be gay, I couldn’t choose to be straight. I can’t choose to be 6ft tall. I can’t choose my shoe size. I can’t choose to have been born in August so I can celebrate my birthday in summer. I can’t choose to be left-handed. To this end, you can’t ‘promote’ being left-handed or being 6ft tall. You either are or you’re not. You can’t ‘promote’ being black, as you’re either born white or black. But where there’s ignorance, there’s prejudice.
    My baby brother was told I and my then fiancée were together ‘just like mummy and daddy’, when he was eight. My ex’s grandson was told at three. Neither reacted. They’ve just grown up knowing that it’s a normal variation on love. They’re just as baffled by homophobia now they’re adults as most other people are.
    Your ‘friends’ who refused to let a room to a non-married couple (who couldn’t marry legally anyway, but probably wanted to) are not Christians, they’re just bigots. Gay or straight, black or white, I’m sure their money was as good as any other customer’s. It’s none of their business whether their customers are married or not; that’s a private matter between the couple. This has nothing to do with Christianity, because (a) nowhere in the teachings of the Lord does it say an unmarried gay couple cannot rent a room, and (b), Christianity is about love, peace, acceptance and treating everyone with respect. Love thy neighbour, etc. There’s nothing about ‘love thy neighbour only if he or she is heterosexual’.
    You’re entitled to be a bigot, sure. But until people like you keep it private and stop shoving your views down others’ throats, causing depression, health problems, isolation and worse to the community of total strangers you hate so irrationally, we still have work to do. Homophobia is ILLEGAL. Every western country’s constitution outlaws discrimination on the grounds of gender, race and sexual orientation. If people choose to break those laws and discriminate publicly, they should expect reprisal.
    If they choose to discriminate privately, not make offensive comments in public which harm people, well then we’ll just let them get on with it and feel sorry for them with their disturbing affliction, and hope we never have to meet them.
    For your sake, I hope one of your kids, grandchildren, nieces or nephews turns out to be gay so you can see for yourself.
    For their sake, I hope they don’t, because they’ll be subjected to your irrational prejudices and this will harm them.
    BTW, my Grandma is the most devout Christian I know, and would never discriminate against gay people, she loves her lesbian granddaughters and neighbours, takes us to church with her, was desperate for us to get married and was bursting with pride at my cousin’s wedding, and hopes she’ll still be around for me to fall in love and marry. She’s VERY Christian, takes communion at home if she can’t get to church, and she’s 90. I doubt you’re 90 yet, and I can see you’re not a true Christian.
    By the way, why are you talking about what happens in the UK????? This is Spain we’re living in, hadn’t you noticed?????

  91. This has more to do with narrow-minded bigots than anything else. Why don’t you just crawl back under your stones? The world will be a nicer place without your offensive comments.

  92. If you could read English, you’d see what we still want, deserve, and have the right to. But for the thousandth time:
    – We want equal widows’ and widowers’ pensions
    – We want equal rights to fertility matters
    – We want our children not to suffer bullying in schools
    – We want to NOT be refused rooms to rent or cakes baked because of the PRIVATE nature of our relationships
    – We want our Christians, Jews and Muslims to be accepted by their Church communities
    – We want to be free from insults, name-calling and all other aspects of homophobia in public and in private. (That means we want to be free of comments like yours).
    – We want gay people in the third world protected from violence (no doubt you’re one of those people who moans about asylum-seekers – well, we’d cut down on those if gay people in the third world didn’t have to flee their country and become refugees in Europe).

    You make the mistake of thinking we’re some kind of collective weird sect of identical characteristics. There are plenty of gay people I dislike and straight people I love very much. There are gay people I like and straight people I don’t. I don’t decide whom to like based upon who their partners are. We’ll be liked or disliked as individuals based upon what people we meet think of us, and I can assure you, I have very good friends and generally get on well with most people I meet. This is neither because of, nor in spite of, being gay.

    Homophobia is NOT the same as ‘not supporting Manchester United’ or ‘being a Conservative voter’. It is BIGOTRY. It is ILLEGAL, it is DANGEROUS, and it has COST LIVES. It is NOT acceptable in public, or in private, so if you do suffer from this totally irrational prejudice against people you don’t even know and have never met, kindly refrain from inflicting it on the rest of the world and keep your disturbing views to yourself.

    Can you read the above or should I spell it out in letters of one syllable???

  93. You think men rape women because they LIKE them???? You think men kill women because they LIKE them????? Rape is not sex, it’s violence and power. Don’t be so ridiculous. In any case, gay men could rape men and lesbians could rape women, but how often do you hear about that happening? The vast majority of rapes are perpetrated against women, by men, and they generally are heterosexual. But that doesn’t mean they do it because they fancy the woman!!!!!!! What century do you live in?! Next thing you’ll tell me ‘she should be flattered by the attention’. (I sincerely hope you don’t).

    Of course lesbians can get pregnant. How do you think they get children – the stork drops them off?! We DO have ovaries and wombs, you know. We’re women, funnily enough. There’s a thing called a ‘sperm bank’ where you can get baby-seeds and implant them yourself. Sometimes gay men come to an arrangement with a lesbian friend, and they share custody of the child. But quite obviously, they don’t conceive their joint baby the same way straight people do.

    It was YOU who compared being homosexual with dangers on the streets and teenage pregnancy, not me. I told you at the time I couldn’t see the connection. And actually, that was one argument I used when my parents gave me homophobic rants in the ’90s – they wouldn’t have to worry about my becoming a teenage pregnancy statistic.
    Or being date-raped…
    Or suffering domestic violence…

  94. Homosexuality isn’t offensive and dangerous; homophobia is. Hence, homophobia should be kept private; homosexuality harms nobody so we can be openly gay if we want to. Do you sort of get the picture now…?
    (Probably your comments haven’t appeared because they have to be checked first, and if there was nobody in the office early in the morning to check them, they’ll still be in the queue).

  95. You need help, because you’re prejudiced against millions of total strangers who’ve done nothing to harm you and don’t even know you. That’s disturbing. Get some counselling.
    You don’t know anything about me, so you have no grounds to say I ‘need help’. I did 20 years ago when I was surrounded by homophobes, but now those are falling into extinction, thank goodness, I don’t have to be surrounded by them any longer. I can love whom I want and it’s nobody else’s business.

  96. Oh Dear! Perhaps I should have explained that remark in words of one syllable. Lesbians don’t get pregnant from EACH OTHER!
    I am well aware that rape is violence and it is shameful. For me, any man who rapes women should be castrated and thats it.

  97. No, lesbians can’t get pregnant from each other (although one can carry the other’s egg so they can share the child-creation experience). You didn’t clarify that’s what you were talking about. But anyway…your point here is…what?

    For once I agree with you, concerning part II: any man who rapes women should be castrated and that’s it. I’d go one step further and say without an anaesthetic, plus they should charge spectators for tickets, and give the money to the Rape Crisis Centre.

  98. “the right to express an opinion on any subject’ makes it acceptable to insult, humiliate, attack, offend and make rude and disrespectful comments to anyone you want?”

    Lets go back to the beginning for the second time – Once again you twist my words to suit your own purpose. I have not done any of the above during my opening statement.
    All I said was I personally do not agree with ‘Gay’ Parades and am disgusted that the Spanish Authorities are promoting it.
    If you remember, I also stated that I do not like to have homosexuality ‘shoved in my face all the time’ i.e. by parades featuring scantily clad men and women and constant whining by the Gay community.
    NONE of this was aimed at an individual, it was NOT an attack, just a statement of opinion which I am entitled to do. None of it was rude, disrespectful or aimed at any single person (certainly not you) so get off your high horse and stop playing the victim here.

  99. Kally, I am sure that there are many other people who would like to comment on different subjects here but your rants (and my replies) are taking up the whole comments column. Therefore I am finishing it right now because I can see no end to it.
    Suffice it to say that you have adequately expressed your point of view, as I have mine, and we will obviously never agree.
    So live your life as you see fit and I will do the same. I wish you luck and happiness in your life, and hope that you can calm down sufficiently to blend in with society.
    Good luck!

  100. That’s disturbing. But which paper…? NOT the Daily Fail, surely….? If so, take it with a kilo of salt.
    I personally believe most religions are outdated and controlling. Not the faith, I don’t mean Islam or Christianity themselves are outdated and controlling, but the various interpretations of them. The Catholic Church is out of date, Methodist not so much (a divorced female vicar ‘married’ my dad and his wife. It’d be unthinkable in Spain, let alone Italy). So it shows the power of interpretation: they’re both Christianity, but one is far more liberal than the other. Thankfully, with Pope Francisco at the helm, I think the Catholic Church may well become more open and relevant sooner or later.
    If the polls really are representative, that’s chilling. On the other hand, Muslims in Algeria staged a protest yesterday filling the streets and clamouring against ISIS, which definitely wasn’t contrived; and it was Muslim lifeguards who acted as a human shield to protect the British tourists on the beach in Sousse, Tunisia.
    There’s always the school of thought that says peaceful Muslims may support the ideas behind ISIS – that the US has caused massacre and misery in their lands for no good reason – and they’re incensed (like separatists who support the political messages behind ETA or the IRA, but condemn the violence).
    And you don’t believe in polls…
    But just as there are radical and extremist Christians who think we should be living according to the Gospel of St Paul in Ancient Israel (‘fornicators out – sex is for reproduction only’; ‘never mind good deeds, if you don’t have the faith good deeds won’t get you into heaven, but if you do you’ll get there despite your sins as long as you ask for forgiveness’) there are no doubt radical Muslims.
    Neither, in my view, are either Christians or Muslims, not in the true sense and spirit.
    Look, it was good which won over evil and ended two world wars – the same will happen over ISIS. It simply MUST.
    There could of course be Muslims in the Intelligence services, or acting as infiltrators and being ‘symbolically’ arrested – but we won’t find out about that because it would blow their cover and ruin the whole operation.
    I don’t know what needs to be done, to be honest. Education at grass-roots level will surely help, but although our human instinct is to want to murder and torture these evil specimens and give them a taste of their own, unfortunately that would inflame the situation.
    Let’s just hope the Intelligence services have a jolly good strategy tucked away.

  101. Your initial comment was insulting, humiliating, attacking, offensive, rude and disrespectful, so yes, you HAVE done all of that.
    ‘Gay parades’ are just a street party, although some of it is undeniably part of our ongoing quest for equality. The original article here states exactly what we still need in terms of equality in the west; you should re-read it – and remember that no heterosexual has ever been fired, banned from marrying, or beaten up and insulted by bigots in the street just for being heterosexual. My ex was gang-raped as a teenager by a group of male youths who felt she needed to be ‘shown what she was missing’.
    Gay people do not ‘shove their persuasion in people’s faces’. Think about this carefully: 10 years ago my ex-girlf and I were chatting to a group of people in a restaurant we’d just met, mainly about our new-ish lives in Spain and the good points and pitfalls. We said, we bought our house last year, ripped out the kitchen and this year we’re hoping to do the bathroom. Cue: awkward silence. By talking about our house and DIY efforts, we’d inadvertently admitted we were living together and in a relationship. We’d ‘flaunted the gay agenda’; we’d ‘shoved it down their throats’.
    Another time I hugged my girlfriend on a street corner. I wasn’t groping her up or anything unsightly (anything which would have been unsightly in a heterosexual or homosexual couple, in public) just hugged her. A group of people shouted from their car, “keep it to yourselves, lesbos, stop shoving it in people’s faces.” If you hugged YOUR wife on a street corner, this same group wouldn’t have noticed, or they’d have said, ‘aww, how sweet’.
    I make sure everyone I meet knows I’m gay – if nobody does, I’m never going to find a girlfriend, am I? Because other women out there like me would probably do likewise, and wouldn’t even think about getting to know me with a view to more; if you know or think a girl is straight, there’s no point.
    A decade ago I literally watched my every word, especially at work. How do you answer questions about your home life without using personal pronouns? You can in Spanish to a certain extent, but but you then have to avoid adjectives (‘my other half comes from England’, not ‘my other half is English’, which would give it away). You see, I couldn’t afford to get fired. I had a mortgage. (Still do, and now know my sexuality is no longer going to get me fired – thank God).
    There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with being open about being gay, just as there’s nothing wrong with being openly heterosexual. Gay AND straight women have far more problems with men ‘shoving their heterosexuality in our faces’ – distasteful comments shouted from cars; “Ehhh, I’LL put your suncream on!” when you’re on the beach; men sidling up to you and staying within a foot of you on the dance floor, even when you pointedly move every time he does; men walking up to you out of nowhere and planting themselves at your bar table – ·Excuse me, can I ask you a question? What’s your name? Where are you from? Have you got a boyfriend?”; when it’s 40ºC in ths shade and too hot for a bra, having to walk very slowly to avoid yucky comments from men on the street; when it’s 40ºC in the shade, wearing a short skirt means you’re ‘up for it’ rather than ‘it’s too hot for longer skirts’, and they won’t leave you alone….
    Homosexuals having a street fiesta one day a year doesn’t do you much harm. Stay at home or go out for the day to the countryside or a town which isn’t celebrating it if you don’t like rainbows. I’ve never seen men or women stripping off at Gay Pride, although scantily-clad at times, yes, because it’s hot. Then again, men walk into supermarkets and bars topless and sweating all over the fruit and veg, and they’re usually straight. Generallly, it’s a silly and happy parade, often in fancy dress, followed by lots of music tents. Pretty much the same as the patronales in every town.
    +Heterosexuality being thrust in lesbians’ AND even straight women’s faces as I’ve described is far more of an invasion and a breach of social etiquette.
    Not all street parades ARE to everyone’s taste; I know people who go to Murcia or Granada to escape the Fallas.

  102. Oh, we do blend quite nicely into society in the main. I manage that by generally being kind and thoughtful (or trying to) and intelligent and having a dry sense of humour. Others do because they’re fun and lively, or good conversationalists, or…
    Not because of, or in spite of, being gay.
    You’ve established you abhor racism (so I should think), because, as I’m sure you agree, it’s irrational and unfair to be ‘against’ a community of millions of people you don’t know based upon something they were born with.
    But that’s what homophobia is.
    I’ve seen in others (and to a certain extent myself) the damage homophobia can cause. You might think it’s harmless, but it’s not. Homophobes could be parents, siblings, friends, and their impact on their gay loved ones, especially if they reject them, can be devastating. Homophobes could be bosses; how do you prove you were passed over for promotion, disciplined or fired on a trumped-up excuse to disguise your boss’ dislike of you just because you can’t help being gay? Contrary to popular myth, few homosexuals would ‘use’ their orientation to claim ‘unfair sacking’ when it was actually that they just weren’t very good. Proving it is nearly impossible.
    A doctor or a teacher who expressed homophobic sentiments, even off duty, even on their personal Facebook sites, would be instantly struck off; that’s how unacceptable it is. After all, you frequently need to tell doctors you’re gay for medical reasons.
    Children in schools need support if they suspect they’re gay, and if they’re bullied because of it or because of their parents being gay, too. Teachers have a duty to stamp it out and provide this support, and they know it.
    I haven’t mentioned my personal situation much, but homophobia in the workplace, the family, and wider society meant I attempted suicide at age 12, was on anti-depressants by my teens, and battled with anorexia and bulimia. I’ve been very, very ill with anorexia as a very young adult. I was on drips, had blood transfusions. I was in physical pain because it destroyed the nerve-endings. Partly, I wanted to starve myself into oblivion because I felt repulsive, I wanted to disappear. Partly, I wanted to show the world I was in pain and needed help, because I couldn’t actually voice it; how can you tell homophobic adults you feel life isn’t worth living because you’re gay and know you’ll never be accepted? As a teenager, I’d always dreamed of a white wedding and children. One day, I realised I’d never be able to have either. This was soul-destroying. I didn’t know things would change for the better…
    And all this leaves its scars. I’ve been lucky; others have fared worse.
    For me, Gay Pride is a personal celebration: I did it. I’m alive. I’ve never been ‘cured’ of my bulimorexia, but now the causes have been largely taken away, it’s under control. It’s a personal celebration, because I don’t have to hide in the shadows, be that terrified teenager who was frightened to make friends with girls at school in case it showed on my face I was disgusting and dangerous.
    I look back at that child as though she’s someone else’s; I don’t see her as me. And I want to hug her, and tell her, hang in there, it WILL be alright. There is nothing wrong with you, you just want to love and be loved, like everyone else. You just want to not be rejected by the masses based upon something you can’t help, but that day WILL come. Please don’t starve yourself, please don’t take your life. You are OKAY, you are NOT a freak, you have so much to give.
    Now I’m pushing 40 pretty hard and cannot believe there was ever a time when a child had to go through that, and at the hands of the adults put there to protect and guide her through life. Now I’m pushing 40, I don’t HAVE to suffer the way an impressionable child would. Now, the world has moved on, I’ve had decades to repair the damage, and I’ve come out the other side – although the physical reminders of the anorexia still bite me, 20 or 30 years later.
    But this damage, caused by homophobia, need never have been done. I’m reclaiming my childhood now; I do fun things, laugh as much and as hard as I can, tell people I love them, surround myself with pussycats at night (live teddy-bears) and build the toys in Kinder eggs. I have friends; I’ve even made friends with my old classmates now we’re adults.
    Had I been born 20 years later, none of this would have happened. I wouldn’t have cost the health service so much, wouldn’t have dropped out of college because of being bullied for being gay and had to pay a fortune for my distance-learning education, or been so painfully timid and introvert.
    Feeling sorry for myself? No. I’m proud I survived and it’s made me a more empathic, understanding person.
    And I’m very lucky. I got off lightly. Homophobia has caused far worse traumas for others. Mine was nothing in comparison.


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